(January 9, 2019 at 12:10 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: [quote pid='1875881' dateline='1547005208']

---

 But... I'm not throwing anything out.

Now you're just running with the things you've posted... about yourself.

 I just pointed out that if people take the time to read back through your posts/replys to people that your character character and ;style' will quickly become appareant.

Tis your story.  Are you going somewhere with this?
[/quote]

No. I wasn't 'Going any where' with anything. It's not a 'Story', again your adding words into the conversation for... some reason.

Just pointing out that your posts... Well, they read strangley once a person have perused a lot of them.

Such as you assertions just a few posts ago.

Not at work.

He has a laminated card nearby.

1. Just say it's a logical fallacy, or a string of them.
2. Say "Just your opinion".
3. Pull Babble quotes out of ass.
4. Tell them they're fallible.
5. Whatever you do, don't get into the weeds of actually addressing the POINT. Just try to de-legitimize the poster.

(January 9, 2019 at 12:22 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote:

(January 9, 2019 at 12:10 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: [quote pid='1875881' dateline='1547005208']

---

 But... I'm not throwing anything out.

Now you're just running with the things you've posted... about yourself.

 I just pointed out that if people take the time to read back through your posts/replys to people that your character character and ;style' will quickly become appareant.

Tis your story.  Are you going somewhere with this?

No. I wasn't 'Going any where' with anything. It's not a 'Story', again your adding words into the conversation for... some reason.

Just pointing out that your posts... Well, they read strangley once a person have perused a lot of them.

Such as you assertions just a few posts ago.

Not at work.
[/quote]

So you're pandering.  Got it.

---

(January 9, 2019 at 12:59 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: He has a laminated card nearby.

1. Just say it's a logical fallacy, or a string of them.
2. Say "Just your opinion".
3. Pull Babble quotes out of ass.
4. Tell them they're fallible.
5. Whatever you do, don't get into the weeds of actually addressing the POINT. Just try to de-legitimize the poster.

By your standards.  I don't follow your standards.  Anything else?

(January 9, 2019 at 1:23 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(January 9, 2019 at 12:22 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Tis your story.  Are you going somewhere with this?

No. I wasn't 'Going any where' with anything. It's not a 'Story', again your adding words into the conversation for... some reason.

Just pointing out that your posts... Well, they read strangley once a person have perused a lot of them.

Such as you assertions just a few posts ago.

Not at work.

So you're pandering.  Got it.

---

[/quote]

Uhm.. you've used that word before.

 So.. what does 'Pandering' mean when you use it in the above sentence? Perhapse give a synonym or two to expand upon what term you're reffering to?

Not at work.

T0 Th3 M4X ' Wrote: Scholars who are fallible humans said...

I will listen to God.

M4X, how can you listen to god?

In the posts since this one I'm quoting, you speak of the Bible and it's prophecies, as if it represents your future listening of god.
While that book does have some moral guidelines which are valid, for all I know, it also carries many which are invalid nowadays. Because of this, I find the notion that the book was inspired by god himself a bit (alright, quite a lot) disingenuous.
The book seems to be little more than a product of its time.
As with all predictions of the future, some educated guesses do some to pass, eventually, while some never do. This same statistic is present in the Bible, so it's prophecy capability is not surprising, hence not evidence of any special insight.

All this makes me think that you are being selective when you approach that book, and, just like the driver that complains that all traffic signs are coming out red for him while missing to account for the few that are green... You too count only the prophecies that, somehow, came true (even if the earliest known texts with them are dated from after the fact), while ignoring those that have never come true.

Some time ago, I picked up a book written in the 70's and I was surprised to find in it the prediction of working from home thanks to computers and their connectivity. Before computers were a thing you could have at home, before the invention of the internet! Should I assume that Alvin Toffler was inspired by god?

Perhaps you would like to revise your stance on those prophecies, or explain why the ones that have come true are the important ones that show us unequivocally that there is divine inspiration...?

(January 9, 2019 at 2:29 am)pocaracas Wrote:

T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Scholars who are fallible humans said...

I will listen to God.

M4X, how can you listen to god?

In the posts since this one I'm quoting, you speak of the Bible and it's prophecies, as if it represents your future listening of god.
While that book does have some moral guidelines which are valid, for all I know, it also carries many which are invalid nowadays. Because of this, I find the notion that the book was inspired by god himself a bit (alright, quite a lot) disingenuous.
The book seems to be little more than a product of its time.
As with all predictions of the future, some educated guesses do some to pass, eventually, while some never do. This same statistic is present in the Bible, so it's prophecy capability is not surprising, hence not evidence of any special insight.

All this makes me think that you are being selective when you approach that book, and, just like the driver that complains that all traffic signs are coming out red for him while missing to account for the few that are green... You too count only the prophecies that, somehow, came true (even if the earliest known texts with them are dated from after the fact), while ignoring those that have never come true.

Some time ago, I picked up a book written in the 70's and I was surprised to find in it the prediction of working from home thanks to computers and their connectivity. Before computers were a thing you could have at home, before the invention of the internet! Should I assume that Alvin Toffler was inspired by god?

Perhaps you would like to revise your stance on those prophecies, or explain why the ones that have come true are the important ones that show us unequivocally that there is divine inspiration...?

Is there any prophecy you would like me address specifically? I hope this is a fair question to you, since I don't know that I've gone into too much depth about any specific prophecy, so it would be easier for me to look the context of specific ones.  And maybe the timeline being assumed for it.  If something isn't supposed to have occurred yet, then it would be difficult to fully account for it at this point.

When you say "product of its time, I would have to agree in part, but not in full.  Of course it was written in consideration of the era, but truth is also truth regardless of time.  "Thou shalt not murder" would be equally relevant today as it would have been thousands of years ago.  The laws were also condensed in explanation, when Jesus said the greatest law was, paraphrased, loving God with all of ourselves, and the second greatest was loving our neighbor as ourselves.  Personally, I would agree those ring equally true for today.  But we also had things that were effective in a certain point in history, and wouldn't apply directly today.  Like when God told David not to do the census, but he did it anyway.  That doesn't mean we can't do a census, because is understood in the context of its time.

---

(January 9, 2019 at 1:38 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote:

(January 9, 2019 at 1:23 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: No. I wasn't 'Going any where' with anything. It's not a 'Story', again your adding words into the conversation for... some reason.

Just pointing out that your posts... Well, they read strangley once a person have perused a lot of them.

Such as you assertions just a few posts ago.

Not at work.

So you're pandering.  Got it.

---

Uhm.. you've used that word before.

 So.. what does 'Pandering' mean when you use it in the above sentence? Perhapse give a synonym or two to expand upon what term you're reffering to?

Not at work.
[/quote]

You're using an unrealistic appeal or what you view as a weakness to sidetrack from the matter being discussed, and using it to try and bloat your own credibility.

(January 9, 2019 at 4:22 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(January 9, 2019 at 2:29 am)pocaracas Wrote: M4X, how can you listen to god?

In the posts since this one I'm quoting, you speak of the Bible and it's prophecies, as if it represents your future listening of god.
While that book does have some moral guidelines which are valid, for all I know, it also carries many which are invalid nowadays. Because of this, I find the notion that the book was inspired by god himself a bit (alright, quite a lot) disingenuous.
The book seems to be little more than a product of its time.
As with all predictions of the future, some educated guesses do some to pass, eventually, while some never do. This same statistic is present in the Bible, so it's prophecy capability is not surprising, hence not evidence of any special insight.

All this makes me think that you are being selective when you approach that book, and, just like the driver that complains that all traffic signs are coming out red for him while missing to account for the few that are green... You too count only the prophecies that, somehow, came true (even if the earliest known texts with them are dated from after the fact), while ignoring those that have never come true.

Some time ago, I picked up a book written in the 70's and I was surprised to find in it the prediction of working from home thanks to computers and their connectivity. Before computers were a thing you could have at home, before the invention of the internet! Should I assume that Alvin Toffler was inspired by god?

Perhaps you would like to revise your stance on those prophecies, or explain why the ones that have come true are the important ones that show us unequivocally that there is divine inspiration...?

Is there any prophecy you would like me address specifically? I hope this is a fair question to you, since I don't know that I've gone into too much depth about any specific prophecy, so it would be easier for me to look the context of specific ones.  And maybe the timeline being assumed for it.  If something isn't supposed to have occurred yet, then it would be difficult to fully account for it at this point.

The trouble is... some prophecies that are in the book, kinda sorta came to pass, if you squint really hard for some, I guess.
I'm not really knowledgeable of many prophecies, but there's that big one where JC would return within the lifetime of those present... and it seems to me that, to this day, people are still waiting for that return.
And, looking into that old Priest of Zedek, the teacher of righteousness, he too was supposed to come back from the dead at some point... There's the repetition of an idea that was already hovering around...

My argument here isn't so much about particular prophecies. Like I wanted to show with that "Third Wave" book reference, it's not impossible to make educated guesses that come to pass decades later. My point is that, just like with any set of (educated) predictions, some will come to pass, and some will not.

Oracles were common at the time, exactly because they would get it right some times... and other times, they could maybe phrase things in such a broad way that almost anything could be made to fit. To this day, fortune tellers thrive on this sort of effect... but do you consider that these people have some divine connection? If not, why? Their success rate is probably very close to the bible prophecies' success rate.

(January 9, 2019 at 4:22 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: When you say "product of its time, I would have to agree in part, but not in full.  Of course it was written in consideration of the era, but truth is also truth regardless of time.  "Thou shalt not murder" would be equally relevant today as it would have been thousands of years ago.  The laws were also condensed in explanation, when Jesus said the greatest law was, paraphrased, loving God with all of ourselves, and the second greatest was loving our neighbor as ourselves.  Personally, I would agree those ring equally true for today.  But we also had things that were effective in a certain point in history, and wouldn't apply directly today.  Like when God told David not to do the census, but he did it anyway.  That doesn't mean we can't do a census, because is understood in the context of its time.

And what about when it says "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"?

What's that?




But look how well the Muslims picked up on that notion!



About that "loving God with all of ourselves", I guess it comes with what you said about listening to god. No matter how much I listen, I can't hear any god. Can you tell me if you can hear anything? And how? That's how I started my previous post to you. That's something I can't get over.
If there's no way to hear god, then what are people loving?
My answer to this is, of course, people are loving a character in a book. Like many people love Tyrion or Jamie Lannister, or Luke Skywalker, or Harry Potter, or James Bond. If a person can Willingly Suspend Disbelief, I'm certain that it is possible for this mental mechanism to go haywire and this suspension then becomes permanent. I think this is sort of what happens when children become indoctrinated, or when adults who were never exposed to much of religion, suddenly go searching for it and become awestruck with it.
People suspend disbelief to the point of actual belief.

(January 9, 2019 at 6:15 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(January 9, 2019 at 4:22 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Is there any prophecy you would like me address specifically? I hope this is a fair question to you, since I don't know that I've gone into too much depth about any specific prophecy, so it would be easier for me to look the context of specific ones.  And maybe the timeline being assumed for it.  If something isn't supposed to have occurred yet, then it would be difficult to fully account for it at this point.

The trouble is... some prophecies that are in the book, kinda sorta came to pass, if you squint really hard for some, I guess.
I'm not really knowledgeable of many prophecies, but there's that big one where JC would return within the lifetime of those present... and it seems to me that, to this day, people are still waiting for that return.
And, looking into that old Priest of Zedek, the teacher of righteousness, he too was supposed to come back from the dead at some point... There's the repetition of an idea that was already hovering around...

My argument here isn't so much about particular prophecies. Like I wanted to show with that "Third Wave" book reference, it's not impossible to make educated guesses that come to pass decades later. My point is that, just like with any set of (educated) predictions, some will come to pass, and some will not.

Oracles were common at the time, exactly because they would get it right some times... and other times, they could maybe phrase things in such a broad way that almost anything could be made to fit. To this day, fortune tellers thrive on this sort of effect... but do you consider that these people have some divine connection? If not, why? Their success rate is probably very close to the bible prophecies' success rate.

(January 9, 2019 at 4:22 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: When you say "product of its time, I would have to agree in part, but not in full.  Of course it was written in consideration of the era, but truth is also truth regardless of time.  "Thou shalt not murder" would be equally relevant today as it would have been thousands of years ago.  The laws were also condensed in explanation, when Jesus said the greatest law was, paraphrased, loving God with all of ourselves, and the second greatest was loving our neighbor as ourselves.  Personally, I would agree those ring equally true for today.  But we also had things that were effective in a certain point in history, and wouldn't apply directly today.  Like when God told David not to do the census, but he did it anyway.  That doesn't mean we can't do a census, because is understood in the context of its time.

And what about when it says "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"?

What's that?




But look how well the Muslims picked up on that notion!



About that "loving God with all of ourselves", I guess it comes with what you said about listening to god. No matter how much I listen, I can't hear any god. Can you tell me if you can hear anything? And how? That's how I started my previous post to you. That's something I can't get over.
If there's no way to hear god, then what are people loving?
My answer to this is, of course, people are loving a character in a book. Like many people love Tyrion or Jamie Lannister, or Luke Skywalker, or Harry Potter, or James Bond. If a person can Willingly Suspend Disbelief, I'm certain that it is possible for this mental mechanism to go haywire and this suspension then becomes permanent. I think this is sort of happens when children become indoctrinated, or when adults who were never exposed to much of religion, suddenly go searching for it and become awestruck with it.
People suspend disbelief to the point of actual belief.

Going to try and address some of this now . Might come back to it in a bit if I don't address it thoroughly.

First, the matter you mentioned about Jesus coming during the lifetime of those individuals.

He was speaking to his disciples when he said this.

Matt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.


In verse 28 it mentions the event and narrows it down to some of them, but it doesn't specify which ones it will be.

Matt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Next chapter, three of them are present (Peter, James, John). This is six days later.

Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

With the graven image, it was the choice of people to make that statue.  If they were told not to and did it anyway, then it's on them

You mentioned "hearing God", but also noted you don't hear anything.  The last thing I want to do is sound insulting, so please keep that in mind.  Sometimes it's our own bias.  There are many times I've wanted to hear God and couldn't, but it was probably me being the problem.  There were times I wanted to hear, but I was also afraid to hear. There are also variations in how we hear God.  For example, Moses hearing God at the burning bush.  Two qualities jump out at me about Moses. He was said to be the most humble man on the face of the earth (Num 12:3) and he had impaired speech (Exodus 4:10).  He was humble enough to handle the task, but assumed he was inadequate. However, God chose to validate him directly.  Saul, who became Paul, was different.  He was blinded (Acts 9:8-9).  As we discussed before, he was a Pharisee, and I believe the indication was that he needed to be humbled to listen.  We see that humility became a staple of his condition, and he goes as far as to call himself the "least of the apostles" because he persecuted the church of God (1 Cor 15:9).  Anyway, what I'm trying to say is he addresses us based on who we are and our condition.  Personally, I believe you can hear God, how I dunno.  So you asked if I can hear God.  Yes, there are times I can hear him very clearly.  There are also times when I can't, but it is often my unwillingness to listen.

I will share an event from my life from maybe around 1 1/2 to 2 years ago.  I was talking to a lady friend and she was going through a difficult time.  We had some things in common.  She taught literature, and I think I mentioned I am a publisher and a writer.  We are also both Christians, but there was conflict in our communication at times.  Parts of it were her personal struggles, and I'm sure part of it was me and my own ignorance at times.  Regardless, one day we were casually talking and I felt this overwhelming need to tell her that "God wants to be her anchor", and it was very specific.  I questioned it at first, but after a minute I told her.  Despite my doubt and concern about sounding crazy, it made perfect sense to her.  An "anchor" was was personal symbol or crest her family used to associate with God, and she went on to tell me that as such she had a tattoo of an anchor.  So take it has you will, but I had no clue of the significance beforehand or attributed any special meaning to an anchor, and beyond that and to this day I don't attribute any special meaning to them.

Likewise, I had a similar experience tonight and concerning you no less, but it was somewhat different.  I woke up around 3 am and didn't know what to do, so I decided to walk the dogs.  While I walking, I was considering our conversations, probably because of the depth of them, but I also heard God as I was walking.  How I would describe it wasn't something that was audible, but hearing a voice inside on how to approach talking to you.  It was actually very positive.  Not so much to look at you an an opponent, but more like a fishing buddy.  Someone you can talk to and consider, but equally the idea that no matter what is said, you can enjoy their company.  So that's my story.

(January 9, 2019 at 8:04 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Going to try and address some of this now . Might come back to it in a bit if I don't address it thoroughly.

First, the matter you mentioned about Jesus coming during the lifetime of those individuals.

He was speaking to his disciples when he said this.

Matt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.


In verse 28 it mentions the event and narrows it down to some of them, but it doesn't specify which ones it will be.

Matt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Next chapter, three of them are present (Peter, James, John). This is six days later.

Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Fair enough... I do wonder what makes people nowadays to still wait for that coming?

(January 9, 2019 at 8:04 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: With the graven image, it was the choice of people to make that statue.  If they were told not to and did it anyway, then it's on them

And, like that one, many others... Like on every church?

(January 9, 2019 at 8:04 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: You mentioned "hearing God", but also noted you don't hear anything.  The last thing I want to do is sound insulting, so please keep that in mind.  Sometimes it's our own bias.  There are many times I've wanted to hear God and couldn't, but it was probably me being the problem.  There were times I wanted to hear, but I was also afraid to hear. There are also variations in how we hear God.  For example, Moses hearing God at the burning bush.  Two qualities jump out at me about Moses. He was said to be the most humble man on the face of the earth (Num 12:3) and he had impaired speech (Exodus 4:10).  He was humble enough to handle the task, but assumed he was inadequate. However, God chose to validate him directly.  Saul, who became Paul, was different.  He was blinded (Acts 9:8-9).  As we discussed before, he was a Pharisee, and I believe the indication was that he needed to be humbled to listen.  We see that humility became a staple of his condition, and he goes as far as to call himself the "least of the apostles" because he persecuted the church of God (1 Cor 15:9).  Anyway, what I'm trying to say is he addresses us based on who we are and our condition.  Personally, I believe you can hear God, how I dunno.  So you asked if I can hear God.  Yes, there are times I can hear him very clearly.  There are also times when I can't, but it is often my unwillingness to listen.

I will share an event from my life from maybe around 1 1/2 to 2 years ago.  I was talking to a lady friend and she was going through a difficult time.  We had some things in common.  She taught literature, and I think I mentioned I am a publisher and a writer.  We are also both Christians, but there was conflict in our communication at times.  Parts of it were her personal struggles, and I'm sure part of it was me and my own ignorance at times.  Regardless, one day we were casually talking and I felt this overwhelming need to tell her that "God wants to be her anchor", and it was very specific.  I questioned it at first, but after a minute I told her.  Despite my doubt and concern about sounding crazy, it made perfect sense to her.  An "anchor" was was personal symbol or crest her family used to associate with God, and she went on to tell me that as such she had a tattoo of an anchor.  So take it has you will, but I had no clue of the significance beforehand or attributed any special meaning to an anchor, and beyond that and to this day I don't attribute any special meaning to them.

Likewise, I had a similar experience tonight and concerning you no less, but it was somewhat different.  I woke up around 3 am and didn't know what to do, so I decided to walk the dogs.  While I walking, I was considering our conversations, probably because of the depth of them, but I also heard God as I was walking.  How I would describe it wasn't something that was audible, but hearing a voice inside on how to approach talking to you.  It was actually very positive.  Not so much to look at you an an opponent, but more like a fishing buddy.  Someone you can talk to and consider, but equally the idea that no matter what is said, you can enjoy their company.  So that's my story.

Ahh... That which you attribute to an external cause, may not be so external.
The human mind is a fascinating thing. So complex and strange... How one little bit failing can seem to cause an inner duality. Sometimes, it's a 50/50 thing and we call it Schizophrenia... but it need not be so clear.
That's my view of such stories where people get these "inner voices". It's the brain doing it, but your conscious self chooses to attribute it to god, given that it's the thing that makes sense, from your upbringing and society around you.

(January 9, 2019 at 1:23 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(January 9, 2019 at 12:22 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Tis your story.  Are you going somewhere with this?

No. I wasn't 'Going any where' with anything. It's not a 'Story', again your adding words into the conversation for... some reason.

Just pointing out that your posts... Well, they read strangley once a person have perused a lot of them.

Such as you assertions just a few posts ago.

Not at work.

So you're pandering.  Got it.

---

(January 9, 2019 at 12:59 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: He has a laminated card nearby.

1. Just say it's a logical fallacy, or a string of them.
2. Say "Just your opinion".
3. Pull Babble quotes out of ass.
4. Tell them they're fallible.
5. Whatever you do, don't get into the weeds of actually addressing the POINT. Just try to de-legitimize the poster.
6. Just say, "by your standards, I don't follow your standards, anything else".

Quote:By your standards.  I don't follow your standards.  Anything else?

Thanks for the addition for the list.
Just another example of attempting to delegitimize the poster. At least you're consistent.
Actually the things on the list have nothing to do with anyone's standards.
They ARE what you always do, no matter whose standards they are.
You are a master at evasion ... one has to grant that.
A slippery slimy evader. Did religion teach you that ? Is the hermeneutic of slippery/slimy one you really espouse ?

BTW, have you cooked up the definitions you were asked for yet ?