My father-in-law always says those people who've never heard of Jesus can just pray to god about it and hear about it through him.

Yes, my head DOES bang against the desk quite well.

(January 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm)Alternatehistory95 Wrote: I'd like to point something out. There are hundreds of millions, if not more, of people around the world who will Never, Ever discover Jesus or the Christian faith, and yet STILL be sentenced to eternal torment for not believing in something they've never even heard of according to Christians. WTF? HOW CAN PEOPLE JUSTIFY THAT???

I got off the phone with a family friend yesterday and it turns out that she thinks Christianity (Heaven, Hell, Bible) is bullshit too. I brought this up and she actually AGREED with me.

Easy. According to the Christianity I once held to, you're condemned to hell anyway, regardless of whether you've heard of Jesus or not (because it's sin, not mere lack of belief in Jesus, that puts you under divine condemnation). Only Jesus saves.

This clearly is a sociopathic way of thinking, but it's the most logically consistent answer to the question, given the Bible says stuff about how Jesus is the only Way and all that.

(January 17, 2019 at 4:09 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: I had one guy tell me that I had to believe or I would go to hell, he seemed confused when I told him that it was impossible just to "decide" to believe. Like saying from 9:00 am on Monday morning I will believe. To believe in something you need to be fully convinced by the evidence provided, I'm still waiting for that

The inability to choose to believe is a fundamental principle in Jewish theology. It's one of the reasons that we are a bit bewildered by proselytizers.

(January 17, 2019 at 5:42 pm)Yonadav Wrote:

(January 17, 2019 at 4:09 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: I had one guy tell me that I had to believe or I would go to hell, he seemed confused when I told him that it was impossible just to "decide" to believe. Like saying from 9:00 am on Monday morning I will believe. To believe in something you need to be fully convinced by the evidence provided, I'm still waiting for that

The inability to choose to believe is a fundamental principle in Jewish theology. It's one of the reasons that we are a bit bewildered by proselytizers.

I see none who have responded to this thread have read the Bible with the intent to understand what God has said on this subject, Grandy got somewhat close but still missed the mark throwing hand grenades doesn't count in a discussion, close isn't being correct. Read the Bible and find out what it says before you condemn something, this sbject has been discussed many times over the years and the answer has been provided, I know because I'm one of those who has given the answer.

GC

(January 18, 2019 at 1:50 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(January 17, 2019 at 5:42 pm)Yonadav Wrote: The inability to choose to believe is a fundamental principle in Jewish theology. It's one of the reasons that we are a bit bewildered by proselytizers.

I see none who have responded to this thread have read the Bible with the intent to understand what God has said on this subject, Grandy got somewhat close but still missed the mark throwing hand grenades doesn't count in a discussion, close isn't being correct. Read the Bible and find out what it says before you condemn something, this sbject has been discussed many times over the years and the answer has been provided, I know because I'm one of those who has given the answer.

GC

Just out of curiousity GC, what is your stance on those who were previously “saved” but have since become an atheist/rescinded their belief?

My parents believe I’m still saved, but have simply lost my way—i.e. I still get a ticket to heaven.

(January 18, 2019 at 1:50 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(January 17, 2019 at 5:42 pm)Yonadav Wrote: The inability to choose to believe is a fundamental principle in Jewish theology. It's one of the reasons that we are a bit bewildered by proselytizers.

I see none who have responded to this thread have read the Bible with the intent to understand what God has said on this subject, Grandy got somewhat close but still missed the mark throwing hand grenades doesn't count in a discussion, close isn't being correct. Read the Bible and find out what it says before you condemn something, this sbject has been discussed many times over the years and the answer has been provided, I know because I'm one of those who has given the answer.

GC

Why the bible (old or new testament?) and not the koran or Bhagavad Gita or XYZ etc...life's too short to read all "holy" books to gleen their take on disbelief - how about you just tell us what the bible has to say on the matter (like we care, it being a book written by men, just like all the others).

(January 18, 2019 at 7:56 am)Editz Wrote:

(January 18, 2019 at 1:50 am)Godscreated Wrote: I see none who have responded to this thread have read the Bible with the intent to understand what God has said on this subject, Grandy got somewhat close but still missed the mark throwing hand grenades doesn't count in a discussion, close isn't being correct. Read the Bible and find out what it says before you condemn something, this sbject has been discussed many times over the years and the answer has been provided, I know because I'm one of those who has given the answer.

GC

Why the bible (old or new testament?) and not the koran or Bhagavad Gita or XYZ etc...life's too short to read all "holy" books to gleen their take on disbelief - how about you just tell us what the bible has to say on the matter (like we care, it being a book written by men, just like all the others).

Written by men? Nobody sent me that memo. And all this time I thought it was invisible unicorns.

(January 18, 2019 at 1:50 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(January 17, 2019 at 5:42 pm)Yonadav Wrote: The inability to choose to believe is a fundamental principle in Jewish theology. It's one of the reasons that we are a bit bewildered by proselytizers.

I see none who have responded to this thread have read the Bible with the intent to understand what God has said on this subject, Grandy got somewhat close but still missed the mark throwing hand grenades doesn't count in a discussion, close isn't being correct. Read the Bible and find out what it says before you condemn something, this sbject has been discussed many times over the years and the answer has been provided, I know because I'm one of those who has given the answer.

GC

What color was the Scotsman's kilt again?  Bless.

RAmen

(January 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm)Alternatehistory95 Wrote: I'd like to point something out. There are hundreds of millions, if not more, of people around the world who will Never, Ever discover Jesus or the Christian faith, and yet STILL be sentenced to eternal torment for not believing in something they've never even heard of according to Christians. WTF? HOW CAN PEOPLE JUSTIFY THAT???

I got off the phone with a family friend yesterday and it turns out that she thinks Christianity (Heaven, Hell, Bible) is bullshit too. I brought this up and she actually AGREED with me.

It gets much worse.

I have heard the story myself but not from God. I've heard it from celibate, old women in penguin suits and celibate, old men in funny hats. And I'm supposed to give these strange people any credibility at all...why?

Even if I actually believed any of this nonsense, I can't help wondering why God created this atheist (me). I mean, he knows everything, right? So why the fuck does he create a guy he knows will never buy into the stories - and therefor end up in Hell. It's like me building an airplane with the foreknowledge that the thing will crash with 200 people aboard into an orphanage and skid into a petting zoo with baby animals and explode into a nuclear fireball - and I build the fucking thing anyway! Who's to blame?

It's all on God. If God created the universe with the rules laid out in the bible, it's all on Him. Every evil, every injustice, every bit of suffering - it's all on God.

(January 18, 2019 at 7:40 am)Nakara Wrote:

(January 18, 2019 at 1:50 am)Godscreated Wrote: I see none who have responded to this thread have read the Bible with the intent to understand what God has said on this subject, Grandy got somewhat close but still missed the mark throwing hand grenades doesn't count in a discussion, close isn't being correct. Read the Bible and find out what it says before you condemn something, this sbject has been discussed many times over the years and the answer has been provided, I know because I'm one of those who has given the answer.

GC

Just out of curiousity GC, what is your stance on those who were previously “saved” but have since become an atheist/rescinded their belief?

My parents believe I’m still saved, but have simply lost my way—i.e. I still get a ticket to heaven.

My personal view is you were never saved, how is it that a person who comes to "know" Jesus can then reject Him. That would be like you denying you exist.

GC

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(January 18, 2019 at 7:56 am)Editz Wrote:

(January 18, 2019 at 1:50 am)Godscreated Wrote: I see none who have responded to this thread have read the Bible with the intent to understand what God has said on this subject, Grandy got somewhat close but still missed the mark throwing hand grenades doesn't count in a discussion, close isn't being correct. Read the Bible and find out what it says before you condemn something, this sbject has been discussed many times over the years and the answer has been provided, I know because I'm one of those who has given the answer.

GC

Why the bible (old or new testament?) and not the koran or Bhagavad Gita or XYZ etc...life's too short to read all "holy" books to gleen their take on disbelief - how about you just tell us what the bible has to say on the matter (like we care, it being a book written by men, just like all the others).

The book written by men who were inspired by the living God. I know you do not care and that is your down fall in understanding, that's your fault and no one else's. To find the truth you have to have an open mind and since you admit you have closed your's off the truth will evade you, again your fault.

GC

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(January 18, 2019 at 3:45 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(January 18, 2019 at 1:50 am)Godscreated Wrote: I see none who have responded to this thread have read the Bible with the intent to understand what God has said on this subject, Grandy got somewhat close but still missed the mark throwing hand grenades doesn't count in a discussion, close isn't being correct. Read the Bible and find out what it says before you condemn something, this sbject has been discussed many times over the years and the answer has been provided, I know because I'm one of those who has given the answer.

GC

What color was the Scotsman's kilt again?  Bless.

RAmen

 Why ask me he is your buddy.

GC

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Now that I've answered your questions I see no reason for further discussion, each of you have made it clear you do not care and if that's what you want so be it.

GC