Predestination?

(January 19, 2019 at 4:44 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Predestination?

Then attempts to kill Baby Hitler will fail.

(January 19, 2019 at 4:49 pm)Yonadav Wrote:

(January 19, 2019 at 4:44 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Predestination?

Then attempts to kill Baby Hitler will fail.

Arguing over the "what ifs" are pointless to me. The fucker named Hiltler was born, and that sucked to the tune of 61 million lives dead,  in the span of his taking power to his cowardly putting a bullet into his own head in 1945. 

It sucks that humans get power and abuse others, but outlawing abortion isn't a solution.

(January 19, 2019 at 4:54 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 19, 2019 at 4:49 pm)Yonadav Wrote: Then attempts to kill Baby Hitler will fail.

Arguing over the "what ifs" are pointless to me. The fucker named Hiltler was born, and that sucked to the tune of 61 million lives dead,  in the span of his taking power to his cowardly putting a bullet into his own head in 1945. 

It sucks that humans get power and abuse others, but outlawing abortion isn't a solution.

When did I say that it was?

(January 19, 2019 at 5:00 pm)Yonadav Wrote:

(January 19, 2019 at 4:54 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Arguing over the "what ifs" are pointless to me. The fucker named Hiltler was born, and that sucked to the tune of 61 million lives dead,  in the span of his taking power to his cowardly putting a bullet into his own head in 1945. 

It sucks that humans get power and abuse others, but outlawing abortion isn't a solution.

When did I say that it was?

You have been arguing in this thread that abortion is a complex issue.

I am saying the only pragmatic argument is to make it safe.

Life is a crap shoot. A birth can lead to a Martin Luther King Jr or a Hitler, and history shows both happen.

My argument is not to focus on abortion being an option, which it should be, but to prevent it focus on society long term. Focus on economics and health care and family planning. Point is, the more stable a society is, the less likely you are going to end up with desperate people be it local crime, or an abused child who grows up to become a despot like Hitler.

(January 19, 2019 at 5:09 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 19, 2019 at 5:00 pm)Yonadav Wrote: When did I say that it was?

You have been arguing in this thread that abortion is a complex issue.

I am saying the only pragmatic argument is to make it safe.

Life is a crap shoot. A birth can lead to a Martin Luther King Jr or a Hitler, and history shows both happen.

My argument is not to focus on abortion being an option, which it should be, but to prevent it focus on society long term. Focus on economics and health care and family planning. Point is, the more stable a society is, the less likely you are going to end up with desperate people be it local crime, or an abused child who grows up to become a despot like Hitler.

Actually, I haven't been arguing that abortion is a complex issue. Reproductive 'rights' are a complex issue. I argue against using rhetoric that confuses the issue. In regard to abortion, arguing the facts is sufficient to carry the matter in favor of a woman's right to an abortion. It is the doctor's right to perform the procedure if they consider it to be in the best medical interest of their patient.  This is the factual basis of the law. It is what the law says. The most popular rhetoric misrepresents the facts and confuses other reproductive and parental issues.

(January 19, 2019 at 5:30 pm)Yonadav Wrote:

(January 19, 2019 at 5:09 pm)Brian37 Wrote: You have been arguing in this thread that abortion is a complex issue.

I am saying the only pragmatic argument is to make it safe.

Life is a crap shoot. A birth can lead to a Martin Luther King Jr or a Hitler, and history shows both happen.

My argument is not to focus on abortion being an option, which it should be, but to prevent it focus on society long term. Focus on economics and health care and family planning. Point is, the more stable a society is, the less likely you are going to end up with desperate people be it local crime, or an abused child who grows up to become a despot like Hitler.

Actually, I haven't been arguing that abortion is a complex issue. Reproductive 'rights' are a complex issue. I argue against using rhetoric that confuses the issue. In regard to abortion, arguing the facts is sufficient to carry the matter in favor of a woman's right to an abortion.  This is the factual basis of the law. It is what the law says. The most popular rhetoric misrepresents the facts and confuses other reproductive and parental issues.

Cut the crap, there is no difference.

This is just word salad on your part.

Abortion is a decision made upon your body, your private parts, your reproduction.

If your goal is to produce more wanted babies, and reduce unwanted pregnancies it isn't as simple as "don't do it".

The long term picture amounts to ALLOWING the individual female to make their own decisions. Beyond that it is about ECONOMICS AND EDUCATION.

(January 19, 2019 at 5:36 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 19, 2019 at 5:30 pm)Yonadav Wrote: Actually, I haven't been arguing that abortion is a complex issue. Reproductive 'rights' are a complex issue. I argue against using rhetoric that confuses the issue. In regard to abortion, arguing the facts is sufficient to carry the matter in favor of a woman's right to an abortion.  This is the factual basis of the law. It is what the law says. The most popular rhetoric misrepresents the facts and confuses other reproductive and parental issues.

Cut the crap, there is no difference.

This is just word salad on your part.

Abortion is a decision made upon your body, your private parts, your reproduction.

If your goal is to produce more wanted babies, and reduce unwanted pregnancies it isn't as simple as "don't do it".

The long term picture amounts to ALLOWING the individual female to make their own decisions. Beyond that it is about ECONOMICS AND EDUCATION.

That's word salad, dude. You're making it all about things that it isn't about. The abortion issue is not about producing more wanted babies. It is not about reducing unwanted pregnancies. It is not about economics and education. It is entirely about a doctor's right to perform a procedure in accordance with their medical opinion about what is best for their patient.

(January 19, 2019 at 5:46 pm)Yonadav Wrote:

(January 19, 2019 at 5:36 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Cut the crap, there is no difference.

This is just word salad on your part.

Abortion is a decision made upon your body, your private parts, your reproduction.

If your goal is to produce more wanted babies, and reduce unwanted pregnancies it isn't as simple as "don't do it".

The long term picture amounts to ALLOWING the individual female to make their own decisions. Beyond that it is about ECONOMICS AND EDUCATION.

That's word salad, dude. You're making it all about things that it isn't about. The abortion issue is not about producing more wanted babies. It is not about reducing unwanted pregnancies. It is not about economics and education. It is entirely about a doctor's right to perform a procedure in accordance with their medical opinion about what is best for their patient.

The procedure ending life isn't about producing a wanted baby. You are still missing my point.

The pro choice movement is about REDUCING IT!

Outlawing abortion WILL NOT produce more wanted babies.

Again, if you are STUPIDLY assuming every female, or provider goes into the decision thinking, "YEA I GET TO END LIFE" like it is a keg party, you are an idiot!

Anyone with any sanity or empathy WANTS every  baby born healthy and wanted.

I am saying that the BEST WAY to reduce abortion isn't to outlaw it, but to create long term economic/education conditions that provide females with MORE autonomy over their lives and more power over their lives through economics and education.

I just found baby Hitler and guess what school he attends?