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RE: Is atheism a belief?
January 23, 2019 at 6:50 pm
(This post was last modified: January 23, 2019 at 6:55 pm by Simon Moon.)
(January 23, 2019 at 6:43 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Nope.
It's a non belief in deities.
I don't know how it can get any more simple.
I think the people having problems understanding the definition, are unable to see, that if an atheist defines their atheism as something like, "I believe there are not gods", instead of, "I have a non belief in deities", their definition STILL fits under the "non belief in deities" definition.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Is atheism a belief?
January 23, 2019 at 9:34 pm
(January 23, 2019 at 6:31 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: (January 23, 2019 at 5:41 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: -The problem isn't the "theists", but rather the "atheists" wanting to change it from meaning what it really means. That's why we have a bazillion new definitions that not even the atheists can agree on. What are you talking about? I'm not trying to change the definition. An atheist is a person who does not believe in god. Show me one atheist that would disagree with that. You can't. On to your next point.
(January 23, 2019 at 5:41 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: -Your claim of "zero evidence" is nonsense. More likely a lack of your understanding.
Do you have evidence for a god? If so, you're the first theist in history to obtain such evidence. Please show us the evidence now so we can all stop the debating/discussing. Except, I'll bet everything I own you have no evidence, so let's move on to your next point.
(January 23, 2019 at 5:41 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: -Saying "atheism" is "inactive position" sounds like an empty claim. Maybe expand on it if you believe it to be true. If it's inactive, please also explain why you demanding religious rights? If it's "inactive" why would you need special protections and tax exemptions?
Atheism is an inactive position. Are you actively not believing in magical space elves? No. You simply live your life as if they do not exist. Are you actively not being a coin collector? Are you actively not being a car salesman? No. So let's move on.
I'm not "demanding religious rights," what are you talking about?
(January 23, 2019 at 5:41 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: - If the court had no evidence about Mark, then it would be "agnostic" or "ignorant." It doesn't have to necessarily be out of intent. I could be agnostic about a view, but it may be due to unintentional lack of consideration of it because I was focused on something else. Except that gnosticism versus agnosticism addresses the issue of knowledge. Theism versus atheism addresses the issue of belief. If you're gnostic about god's existence, you have knowledge that god exists. If you're agnostic about god's existence then you do not have knowledge that god exists. If you're a theist, you have a belief that god exists, if you're an atheist, you do not have a belief that god exists.
Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive ideas. While "agnostic" has, in recent years, taken on a colloquial meaning that's different from the technical definition, the correct way to identify yourself would technically be either an agnostic atheist or a gnostic atheist, and an agnostic theist or a gnostic theist.
Is this honestly that hard for you to understand? If so, you're way out your depth in this conversation. Now that we've cleared that up, on to the next point.
(January 23, 2019 at 5:41 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: - Your position isn't "inactive" it's competing. Not only that, it's a lot of copying. The difference between atheists and theists is you say "no god", theists say "God" or "gods." Everything else, you pretty much copy. We have churches, you have churches. We have religious rights, you demanded and received religious rights. We sing hymns in churches, you sing hymns in churches. We talk about God, and you do the same. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is what it is.
Dude, what are you talking about? I do not attend a church or sing hymns or anything that you're saying. What the fuck are you talking about?
I can't? Here ya go. Next...
![[Image: 51sFSznpLJL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg]](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51sFSznpLJL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
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RE: Is atheism a belief?
January 23, 2019 at 9:51 pm
(This post was last modified: January 23, 2019 at 10:35 pm by Acrobat.)
(January 23, 2019 at 6:31 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: Except that gnosticism versus agnosticism addresses the issue of knowledge. Theism versus atheism addresses the issue of belief. If you're gnostic about god's existence, you have knowledge that god exists. If you're agnostic about god's existence then you do not have knowledge that god exists. If you're a theist, you have a belief that god exists, if you're an atheist, you do not have a belief that god exists.
Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive ideas. While "agnostic" has, in recent years, taken on a colloquial meaning that's different from the technical definition, the correct way to identify yourself would technically be either an agnostic atheist or a gnostic atheist, and an agnostic theist or a gnostic theist.
Agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist etc.. is very recently developed concept.
But lets ask a question. If atheists who know God doesn't exist and atheists who don't know if God doesn't exist, can be separated by the gnostic agnostic distinction.
What separates atheists who believe God doesn't exist, and those who don't believe God exists? What term should people use when referring to those who believe God doesn't exist, from those who lack a belief one way or the other?
Previously this distinction was made between agnosticism, and atheism. If the new conception was to provide further clarity it failed to do so.
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RE: Is atheism a belief?
January 23, 2019 at 10:03 pm
(January 23, 2019 at 9:51 pm)Acrobat Wrote: What separates atheists who believe God exists, and those who don't believe God exists? One is an atheist, and the other is not.......
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is atheism a belief?
January 23, 2019 at 10:08 pm
(January 23, 2019 at 9:34 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: (January 23, 2019 at 6:31 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: What are you talking about? I'm not trying to change the definition. An atheist is a person who does not believe in god. Show me one atheist that would disagree with that. You can't. On to your next point.
Do you have evidence for a god? If so, you're the first theist in history to obtain such evidence. Please show us the evidence now so we can all stop the debating/discussing. Except, I'll bet everything I own you have no evidence, so let's move on to your next point.
Atheism is an inactive position. Are you actively not believing in magical space elves? No. You simply live your life as if they do not exist. Are you actively not being a coin collector? Are you actively not being a car salesman? No. So let's move on.
I'm not "demanding religious rights," what are you talking about?
Except that gnosticism versus agnosticism addresses the issue of knowledge. Theism versus atheism addresses the issue of belief. If you're gnostic about god's existence, you have knowledge that god exists. If you're agnostic about god's existence then you do not have knowledge that god exists. If you're a theist, you have a belief that god exists, if you're an atheist, you do not have a belief that god exists.
Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive ideas. While "agnostic" has, in recent years, taken on a colloquial meaning that's different from the technical definition, the correct way to identify yourself would technically be either an agnostic atheist or a gnostic atheist, and an agnostic theist or a gnostic theist.
Is this honestly that hard for you to understand? If so, you're way out your depth in this conversation. Now that we've cleared that up, on to the next point.
Dude, what are you talking about? I do not attend a church or sing hymns or anything that you're saying. What the fuck are you talking about?
I can't? Here ya go. Next...
Then he's not an atheist.
Next!
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Is atheism a belief?
January 23, 2019 at 10:14 pm
I think that these guys really, really like getting conned by hucksters who write books.... 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is atheism a belief?
January 23, 2019 at 10:33 pm
(This post was last modified: January 23, 2019 at 10:35 pm by Acrobat.)
(January 23, 2019 at 10:03 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: (January 23, 2019 at 9:51 pm)Acrobat Wrote: What separates atheists who believe God exists, and those who don't believe God exists? One is an atheist, and the other is not.......
Sorry, corrected it:
"What separates atheists who believe God doesn't exist, and those who don't believe God exists? What term should people use when referring to those who believe God doesn't exist, from those who lack a belief one way or the other?"
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RE: Is atheism a belief?
January 23, 2019 at 10:51 pm
(January 23, 2019 at 10:08 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: (January 23, 2019 at 9:34 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: I can't? Here ya go. Next...
Then he's not an atheist.
Next!
Sure he is. How can you determine if he's an atheist? Maybe you're not a real atheist then. Who gets to pick?
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RE: Is atheism a belief?
January 23, 2019 at 10:55 pm
(January 23, 2019 at 10:51 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: (January 23, 2019 at 10:08 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Then he's not an atheist.
Next!
Sure he is. How can you determine if he's an atheist? Maybe you're not a real atheist then. Who gets to pick?
Of you believe in a god you're a theist.
If you don't, you're an atheist.
Seriously, this isn't rocket science.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Is atheism a belief?
January 23, 2019 at 11:00 pm
(This post was last modified: January 23, 2019 at 11:00 pm by Acrobat.)
(January 23, 2019 at 10:55 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: (January 23, 2019 at 10:51 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Sure he is. How can you determine if he's an atheist? Maybe you're not a real atheist then. Who gets to pick?
Of you believe in a god you're a theist.
If you don't, you're an atheist.
Seriously, this isn't rocket science.
Abour 20% of people who identify as atheist, also believe in God.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts...a42b25118a
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