Reality pales to vivid imagination!

Quote:God designed the processes we find in nature and He is all powerful is my point.  He can manipulate nature at His choosing.

But he doesn't. 
He lets babies die from cancer, and he allows people worshiping him to get shot in church. 
An evil monster of a god you gots there, bub.  
In fact there is no evidence you monster god ever does anything. Ever. 
What we observe is the same thing we would observe if there was no god.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

If a god designed our natural processes..that god designed them in such a way as to operate without him and leave no trace of his hand.

All that you're doing with this ID shit is providing a means of falsifying the contention that your god, specifically, exists.  Behegod, the god of ID - make a testable claim on reality, and fails. Now, obviously, it's your choice to continue along as a cultist of some nonexistent god, but that's not a requirement of a christian faith.

(January 27, 2019 at 8:59 pm)no one Wrote: Honestly 47, do you and hovind, hamm, and comfort, sit around your little magic god circle and smoke ehough meth till one of you as the courage to come here and spew this drivel?

I think they are YEC so we differ on opinion there and no I don't smoke meth.

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(January 27, 2019 at 9:06 pm)Rahn127 Wrote: CD - so god designed nature (meaning all the forces of nature) gravity, strong force, weak force, electromagnetic and he wound the clock of the universe up and let it go.

And

He also messes with it from time to time, because he's all powerful.

And

He had to create people because they can't happen naturally.

And

He'll send me to hell for eating shrimp while wearing garments of two different fabrics while I'm planting crops of two different types next to each other while I'm fucking a Mexican swim instructor named Jesus.

And

Somehow you KNOW all of this.

Or

You simply believe all of this without any evidence whatsoever.

From my skeptical point of view, it really sounds like you're just making all of this up.

Quit strawmanning and attack the information argument.  There is no way around that argument.

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(January 27, 2019 at 11:00 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

Quote:God designed the processes we find in nature and He is all powerful is my point.  He can manipulate nature at His choosing.

But he doesn't. 
He lets babies die from cancer, and he allows people worshiping him to get shot in church. 
An evil monster of a god you gots there, bub.  
In fact there is no evidence you monster god ever does anything. Ever. 
What we observe is the same thing we would observe if there was no god.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

He is able and willing and will put an end to evil at the final judgment.

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(January 27, 2019 at 11:07 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: If a god designed our natural processes..that god designed them in such a way as to operate without him and leave no trace of his hand.

All that you're doing with this ID shit is providing a means of falsifying the contention that your god, specifically, exists.  Behegod, the god of ID - make a testable claim on reality, and fails.  Now, obviously, it's your choice to continue along as a cultist of some nonexistent god, but that's not a requirement of a christian faith.

There is nothing wrong with Dr. Behe.  Not sure why you attack him so much.  He sees clear design in molecular machines, which there is.  Also, why lump me in with him.  I do not represent the Discovery Institute or ID.  I support what they are doing though.  My main point is beyond there's as I believe the code is proof and they won't go as far to say that but I will.

(January 27, 2019 at 8:37 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I am not a Young Earth Creationist which is what these articles are about.  I don't agree with them either on matters of science.

You are missing the point, as always.

I don't care if you're a YEC, OEC, MEC, Budhha, or Jesus Christ himself.
I care about how your reasoning skills work. And you showed that you are not interested in anything else but forward your assertion that "complex and functional structures in biology can only be the product of a master designer".
Your reasoning is flawed, as several people have pointed out and some have tried to show you exactly where the flaw resides... and yet, you continue to think that your reasoning is the only possibility.

I've offered the hypothetical where I present you a natural explanation for the emergence of your complex and functional structure and what did you say? That it wouldn't matter, because you "know" that the only possibility is it having been created by a non-bio creator.
This represents the exact same mindset as the YEC in those images I posted. THE.EXACT.SAME.MINDSET!

So, if you don't want to get mixed up with them, act differently!

CDF47 Wrote:

(January 27, 2019 at 11:00 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: But he doesn't. 
He lets babies die from cancer, and he allows people worshiping him to get shot in church. 
An evil monster of a god you gots there, bub.  
In fact there is no evidence you monster god ever does anything. Ever. 
What we observe is the same thing we would observe if there was no god.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

He is able and willing and will put an end to evil at the final judgment.

Nice to know you believe in an openly evil god.

(January 27, 2019 at 4:38 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(January 26, 2019 at 3:46 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Really? Why do you think that Langton's ant, operating on simple rules, always builds a highway regardless of initial conditions? Do you know? I bet you don't.

ETA: And you ignore England's research into self organising properties of inanimate matter because it is fatal to your argument. You don't even know who that is, do you? Shows how much you keep up with current research.

Please explain how inanimate matter turns to a living system.

Why? You will simply ignore it all over again.

(January 28, 2019 at 4:16 am)CDF47 Wrote:

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(January 27, 2019 at 11:07 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: If a god designed our natural processes..that god designed them in such a way as to operate without him and leave no trace of his hand.

All that you're doing with this ID shit is providing a means of falsifying the contention that your god, specifically, exists.  Behegod, the god of ID - make a testable claim on reality, and fails.  Now, obviously, it's your choice to continue along as a cultist of some nonexistent god, but that's not a requirement of a christian faith.

There is nothing wrong with Dr. Behe.  Not sure why you attack him so much.  He sees clear design in molecular machines, which there is.  Also, why lump me in with him.  I do not represent the Discovery Institute or ID.  I support what they are doing though.  My main point is beyond there's as I believe the code is proof and they won't go as far to say that but I will.

You lump yourself in, so why ask such a silly question?  You believe wrong, and ofc they would (and did) say that...the only reason they didn't (when they didn't) was to attempt to backdoor the public school system.  Have you been living under a rock?

You....got.....conned by charlatans. That's not a requirement of a christian faith either.

(January 28, 2019 at 5:09 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(January 27, 2019 at 8:37 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I am not a Young Earth Creationist which is what these articles are about.  I don't agree with them either on matters of science.

You are missing the point, as always.

I don't care if you're a YEC, OEC, MEC, Budhha, or Jesus Christ himself.
I care about how your reasoning skills work. And you showed that you are not interested in anything else but forward your assertion that "complex and functional structures in biology can only be the product of a master designer".
Your reasoning is flawed, as several people have pointed out and some have tried to show you exactly where the flaw resides... and yet, you continue to think that your reasoning is the only possibility.

I've offered the hypothetical where I present you a natural explanation for the emergence of your complex and functional structure and what did you say? That it wouldn't matter, because you "know" that the only possibility is it having been created by a non-bio creator.
This represents the exact same mindset as the YEC in those images I posted. THE.EXACT.SAME.MINDSET!

So, if you don't want to get mixed up with them, act differently!

I understood your point.  My point was you were mixing me in a group with YEC when we actually hold some different beliefs regarding science.  I don't mind being lumped in with them since they too are Christian, as I am.  I don't agree with them on matters of science though.

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(January 28, 2019 at 7:05 am)Nomad Wrote:

CDF47 Wrote:He is able and willing and will put an end to evil at the final judgment.

Nice to know you believe in an openly evil god.

The devil is evil.  God is holy and righteous and good.  He will destroy evil at the final judgment.  It will be eternally separated from all creation or destroyed.  One way or the other, He will deal with it.

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(January 28, 2019 at 7:31 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(January 27, 2019 at 4:38 pm)CDF47 Wrote: Please explain how inanimate matter turns to a living system.

Why? You will simply ignore it all over again.

I didn't ignore anything.  I addressed the previous posts on it.  One was a computer simulation of things moving around after some programming was done.

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(January 28, 2019 at 8:43 am)Gae Bolga Wrote:

(January 28, 2019 at 4:16 am)CDF47 Wrote:

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There is nothing wrong with Dr. Behe.  Not sure why you attack him so much.  He sees clear design in molecular machines, which there is.  Also, why lump me in with him.  I do not represent the Discovery Institute or ID.  I support what they are doing though.  My main point is beyond there's as I believe the code is proof and they won't go as far to say that but I will.

You lump yourself in, so why ask such a silly question?  You believe wrong, and ofc they would (and did) say that...the only reason they didn't (when they didn't) was to attempt to backdoor the public school system.  Have you been living under a rock?

You....got.....conned by charlatans.  That's not a requirement of a christian faith either.

Where is it stated that they were back dooring the public school system?

You have the internet.  Use it.  Or just refer to those links in this thread that you've already received?  The issue is in the public domain, and was widely followed and reported on.  

This culminated in a trial, the transcripts of which are available to you and have been referred to you previously in thread.

You...got conned...by charlatans. They knew that their methodology was unscientific, they knew that their specific claims regarding complexity and design had been thoroughly falsified, and they knew that their claims were designed to specifically advance a particular notion of the judeochristian god. All of this information was volunteered, by themselves, under oath, on record. These are not facts in dispute about biology, gods, reality, or anything else. They are facts about the mundane operation of a puerile scam, that you've swallowed....hook line and sinker.

So go, and let wonder lead you to knowledge. Maybe you'll find a way to waltz right out of the ID cult and back into the fold of christian belief..which is unaffected by the failure of ID and the falsification of it's god.