(February 23, 2019 at 2:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(February 23, 2019 at 1:07 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Some things are useful but teaching lies is not. 
I would wager money that you are incapable of picturing a universe without a god.
Just as I am incapable of imagining a universe with a god. I don't even know what god means. Tis a meaningless phrase used to cover mans ignorance as you demonstrate multiple times a day.

After seeing the clear signs of design in this universe I absolutely cannot envision a world without a God.

---

The Bible is true.  Some will just be blind to the truth regardless of how clear the picture is.

You see design were there is none. We have explained this to you with scientific explanations for everything but you refuse to let it sway you. I get it you are so far gone that no matter the quality of evidence that conflicts with your beliefs you will stick to your beliefs and that's ok. You can believe wrong things if you like. Just don't be surprised when we call you out when you proudly present wrong things as though they are truth.

You are demonstrably wrong.


I must say you keep saying the bible is true which makes me wonder if you have read it. 
I have read it from start to finish and I must say the stupid that permeates far outweighs the nice bits.

I urge you to read it the way I did, from cover to cover. It makes little sense. One of the worst books I have ever read.

(February 23, 2019 at 2:41 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(February 23, 2019 at 2:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: After seeing the clear signs of design in this universe I absolutely cannot envision a world without a God.

---

The Bible is true.  Some will just be blind to the truth regardless of how clear the picture is.

You see design were there is none. We have explained this to you with scientific explanations for everything but you refuse to let it sway you. I get it you are so far gone that no matter the quality of evidence that conflicts with your beliefs you will stick to your beliefs and that's ok. You can believe wrong things if you like. Just don't be surprised when we call you out when you proudly present wrong things as though they are truth.

You are demonstrably wrong.


I must say you keep saying the bible is true which makes me wonder if you have read it. 
I have read it from start to finish and I must say the stupid that permeates far outweighs the nice bits.

I urge you to read it the way I did, from cover to cover. It makes little sense. One of the worst books I have ever read.

I am correct that the information in DNA proves a Designer.  

I read the Bible cover to cover and I studied it extensively.  It makes perfect sense.  The Lord is loving and forgiving.  He is also very merciful.  He has a wrath though and He hates evil.  Also, due to man's disobedience to God, man lost paradise for now.  Man can be redeemed with the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.  Truly believing in Jesus will get you saved from the judgment to come.  It is not that complicated.

(February 23, 2019 at 3:28 pm)CDF47 Wrote:  I read the Bible cover to cover and I studied it extensively.  It makes perfect sense.  The Lord is loving and forgiving.  He is also very merciful.  He has a wrath though and He hates evil.  Also, due to man's disobedience to God, man lost paradise for now.  Man can be redeemed with the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.  Truly believing in Jesus will get you saved from the judgment to come.  It is not that complicated.

“If you buy a Hebrew slave, six years shall he serve: and in the seventh year he shall go free without payment. If he came alone, he shall go out alone; if he is husband of a wife, then the wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters. The wife and her children shall belong to the master, and he shall go out alone. But if the slave says plainly: ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I shall not go out as a free man,’ then his master will bring him before God, then he shall bring him to the door or doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl, and he shall serve him permanently.” (Exodus 21:2-6)(NASB)

“As for your male or female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male or female slaves from the pagan nations around you. Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of the families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession. You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.” (Leviticus 25: 44-46)(NASB)

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong has been done, and there is no partiality. (Colossians 3:22-25)

“Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, for you know that you also have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 4:1)

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, 8knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality.” (Ephesians 6:5-9)

“Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties.” (Timothy 6:1-2)

“Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior.” (Titus 2:9-10)

“Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh.” (Peter 2:18)

So, you are in complete agreement that slavery, as sanctioned in the Bible, is a noble and moral enterprise?

(February 23, 2019 at 6:47 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I spent the best part of my formative years dealing with bovine excrement and found it MUCH more rewarding that dealing with creationists.

Boru

You're right, Pan troglodytal excrement then, maybe?

(February 23, 2019 at 4:30 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote:

(February 23, 2019 at 3:28 pm)CDF47 Wrote:  I read the Bible cover to cover and I studied it extensively.  It makes perfect sense.  The Lord is loving and forgiving.  He is also very merciful.  He has a wrath though and He hates evil.  Also, due to man's disobedience to God, man lost paradise for now.  Man can be redeemed with the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.  Truly believing in Jesus will get you saved from the judgment to come.  It is not that complicated.

“If you buy a Hebrew slave, six years shall he serve: and in the seventh year he shall go free without payment. If he came alone, he shall go out alone; if he is husband of a wife, then the wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters. The wife and her children shall belong to the master, and he shall go out alone. But if the slave says plainly: ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I shall not go out as a free man,’ then his master will bring him before God, then he shall bring him to the door or doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl, and he shall serve him permanently.” (Exodus 21:2-6)(NASB)

“As for your male or female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male or female slaves from the pagan nations around you. Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of the families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession. You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.” (Leviticus 25: 44-46)(NASB)

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong has been done, and there is no partiality. (Colossians 3:22-25)

“Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, for you know that you also have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 4:1)

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, 8knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality.” (Ephesians 6:5-9)

“Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties.” (Timothy 6:1-2)

“Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior.” (Titus 2:9-10)

“Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh.” (Peter 2:18)

So, you are in complete agreement that slavery, as sanctioned in the Bible, is a noble and moral enterprise?

 Perfect sense. 

'These people' seem to think they are the only ones  who have read the bible. 

Catholics are no encouraged to read the bible, so of course I did, at 16. Soon saw why they don't want 'ordinary people' reading the bible, especially the Torah, especially say Leviticus, which apologists like to cherry pick  for its teachings about homosexuality. Specifically 

Lev. 18:22

• ‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (NASB)
  
• "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (ESV, NKJV)
  

 

Apologists insist this law remains valid.



There's heaps more sensible stuff .These all form part of "The Law Of Moses" referred  to collectively as" The Mitzvot",by the Jews.  There are a  total of 613 in The Torah, which consists of the first five books of the old testament. Aka '"The Pentateuch" (Greek for 5 books)

Heaps of sensible stuff; Eg penalty for not keeping the Sabbath is death,. penalty for adultery is death, a parent may kill a recalcitrant child.

I'm also fond of The Book OR Revelation in NT. Now that confused me. Scholars today think it was written by alt least 2 people.   Best explanation I can think of is that the authors had taken some magic mushrooms, or perhaps had ergot poisoning .Some of the smaller Christian sects, such as JW , insist on using revelations to predict the Second Coming. When a prediction doesn't come true, they simply make a new one.. Catholics rarely even mention Revelations, I think they are embarrassed bit. I certainly was ,at 16.


THE WEST WING is my favourite US  TV show, I have the full series on DVD, and have seen them all 4-5 times

The clip linked below , entitled "bible bashers" is just one reason I like the show so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSXJzybEeJM

(February 23, 2019 at 11:48 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(February 23, 2019 at 11:00 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Well, CDFs crusade for the holy DNA just took a hit, The DNA alphabet just doubles.

To the long familiar ACGT set of four bases, scientists have added a new synthetic group of four SBPZ.

This makes synthetic DNA literally millions of times more powerful than gods crappy version.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00650-8

Take that, god. I suppose.

It probably adds more complexity, specificity, and functionality.

Yes. Which means we are better as humans than your crackpot deity of choice. You really have no clue how that fact destroys your god-bothery because you do not understand how lame your claims actually are.

I could mathematically type out why that demonstrates your deity of choice to be far inferior, but given that 1 + 1 entirely flummoxes you, that would be an entirely wasted effort, no? And why would I waste that effort on an idiot?

You posted that, "It probably adds more complexity, specificity, and functionality."

Sure, and we did that no god required. You are simply going to knee jerk just like you did for contraception. That was declared anathema by your ilk despite your protestations back in the day. So was the abuse hurled upon victims of rape. You can try to paint it however you like, but no matter what you do, tou are promoting and supporting it.

You cannot get any moral pass.

It's endemic. The catholics do it, the evangelic, the scientologists, the ...well you pervs have only one agenda. Hide the perv while perpetuating the perv. And you are not a little miffed when people point this out.

Well tough. I will point out the pervs as will many.

What you are attempting to do is apologies for whatever is your particular flavour of crackpottery as though none of your leading lights favours victimisation of kids. You are trying to paper over the cracks.

You do as a christian, just like islam, just like any crank belief.

(February 23, 2019 at 12:45 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(February 23, 2019 at 12:16 pm)pocaracas Wrote: No, you didn't.
You couldn't. You were brainwashed far before that!

Just because my mother read me the Bible at probably the age of 2 on up does not mean I am brainwashed.  My parents also taught me math, reading, and writing prior to kindergarten.  Does that mean they were brainwashing me?  No.  Again, I took a critical look at my faith many times so I am not brainwashed.  Based on all the evidence before me, I believe Christianity is the one and only true faith.

Here's the evidence of your brainwashing:

(February 23, 2019 at 3:28 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I am correct that the information in DNA proves a Designer.

I read the Bible cover to cover and I studied it extensively. It makes perfect sense. The Lord is loving and forgiving. He is also very merciful. He has a wrath though and He hates evil. Also, due to man's disobedience to God, man lost paradise for now. Man can be redeemed with the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. Truly believing in Jesus will get you saved from the judgment to come. It is not that complicated.

Bottom-up:
1. Why would there be any judgment? What sort of god does that?!
2. Why would a god value faith?
3. Why the blood of the god? That is the most cultist notion there is.
4. Man can be Redeemed from what? Man is a social animal, always evolving, always finding new things, being put in new situations.
5. If man disobeyed a god... wait what?! What sort of idiot would disobey an entity such as a god?! Either one that was totally foolish, or one that didn't know what he was up against... either bad design, or punishment imposed by the one entity that was responsible for providing information and never did. Either way, the guilty party, in that story, is the punisher, not the punished.
6. Why does a god possess human emotions such as wrath? If that god is the creator you claim it to be, why did it create evil?
7. A loving and forgiving and merciful lord is not one that expels people from paradise and regulates slavery.... actually, such a god would never have been absent in such a way to allow people to start slaving, nor to permit that disobedience. Why do you accept an incompetent god such as the one depicted in your book?
8. No, the bible makes no sense, unless you engage the "[url?https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief]Willing Suspension of Disbelief" (yes, this is a link)[/url]. It's the same thing that lets us accept Lord of the Rings as a great story. When you try to square it with reality things go a bit awry. Just look at how you and your ID friend want to make DNA fit with design, while everyone else sees standard evolution.

Tell me, have you ever posed any of these questions, oh mister critical and logical?

(February 23, 2019 at 4:30 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote:

(February 23, 2019 at 3:28 pm)CDF47 Wrote:  I read the Bible cover to cover and I studied it extensively.  It makes perfect sense.  The Lord is loving and forgiving.  He is also very merciful.  He has a wrath though and He hates evil.  Also, due to man's disobedience to God, man lost paradise for now.  Man can be redeemed with the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.  Truly believing in Jesus will get you saved from the judgment to come.  It is not that complicated.

“If you buy a Hebrew slave, six years shall he serve: and in the seventh year he shall go free without payment. If he came alone, he shall go out alone; if he is husband of a wife, then the wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters. The wife and her children shall belong to the master, and he shall go out alone. But if the slave says plainly: ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I shall not go out as a free man,’ then his master will bring him before God, then he shall bring him to the door or doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl, and he shall serve him permanently.” (Exodus 21:2-6)(NASB)

“As for your male or female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male or female slaves from the pagan nations around you. Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of the families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession. You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.” (Leviticus 25: 44-46)(NASB)

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong has been done, and there is no partiality. (Colossians 3:22-25)

“Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, for you know that you also have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 4:1)

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, 8knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality.” (Ephesians 6:5-9)

“Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties.” (Timothy 6:1-2)

“Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior.” (Titus 2:9-10)

“Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh.” (Peter 2:18)

So, you are in complete agreement that slavery, as sanctioned in the Bible, is a noble and moral enterprise?

In those times the regulations he added were fine.  Masters were to treat their slaves well.

This designer must have flunked out of design school. Earth is like that island of misfit toys.

(February 23, 2019 at 6:37 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(February 23, 2019 at 4:30 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: “If you buy a Hebrew slave, six years shall he serve: and in the seventh year he shall go free without payment. If he came alone, he shall go out alone; if he is husband of a wife, then the wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters. The wife and her children shall belong to the master, and he shall go out alone. But if the slave says plainly: ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I shall not go out as a free man,’ then his master will bring him before God, then he shall bring him to the door or doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl, and he shall serve him permanently.” (Exodus 21:2-6)(NASB)

“As for your male or female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male or female slaves from the pagan nations around you. Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of the families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession. You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.” (Leviticus 25: 44-46)(NASB)

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong has been done, and there is no partiality. (Colossians 3:22-25)

“Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, for you know that you also have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 4:1)

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, 8knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality.” (Ephesians 6:5-9)

“Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties.” (Timothy 6:1-2)

“Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior.” (Titus 2:9-10)

“Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh.” (Peter 2:18)

So, you are in complete agreement that slavery, as sanctioned in the Bible, is a noble and moral enterprise?

In those times the regulations he added were fine.  Masters were to treat their slaves well.

Nope! It remains self-evident that slavery is and has always been an abomination against humanity. You have, quite literally, admitted to being extremely ignorant and/or immoral. It also disproves your credibility that the Bible is true and accurate, and that the Bible has any justifiable evidence to support your claims.