Now again, this is not a demand that any dem vote for him. Just an opinion that anyone dems nominate need to take up.

Obama famously said during his first run, "There are no red states, there are no blue states, there is only the United States."

I just watched Beto's first stump speech for his Presidential run. He was appealing to both farmers and urban voters and the working class in teachers. 

Not claiming he will get the nomination. Just saying if Bernie, or Warren or Booker or Harris, ect...... Whomever we nominate has to take this tone. 

I loved the fact that Beto pounded the issue of El Passo knowing the orange turd lied about immigration in that city being the cause of crime that suddenly got fixed by a wall, which even the Sheriff of El Passo called a lie.

I'll take a Beto/Bernie ticket, or e Bernie/ Beto ticket. But it is still too early on to know whom we will nominate. My point was last time, and this time is the same. We need to unite, and vote blue no matter who.

Beto really does remind me of Robert F Kennedy. I love Bernie too. I think we have a great field. It still depends on the supporters of any of the field to not get divided.

That might work as an inspirational gimmick, but, I think that folks like Beto and Barry Bamz have it entirely wrong.  We're told, of late..for example, that we ought to appeal to white supremacy if we want to avoid fascism. That we have to allow them to take some other person hostage if we expect them to free a captive in their possession, lol. Namely, ourselves.

(March 14, 2019 at 9:55 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: That might work as an inspirational gimmick, but, I think that folks like Beto and Barry Bamz have it entirely wrong.  We're told, of late..for example, that we ought to appeal to white supremacy if we want to avoid fascism.  That we have to allow them to take some other person hostage if we expect them to free a captive in their possession, lol.  Namely, ourselves.

No, Beto was not trying to pull a "gimmick".  That is what the orange turd did.

Farmers, like Soy Bean farmers, ARE getting fucked by Trump's trade war with China. Teachers in Texas, and nationwide for that matter, do not get paid enough. The classes sizes are far too big, and they are using their own money to pay for student's supplies. Opiate addiction also is a real problem affecting every state, both blue and red, due to lack of affordable health care, and due to big pharma pushing Oxy's. 

If dems are going to win, NO MATTER whom we nominate. We cannot simply stick to big cities, suburbs and blue states. 

Dems not only need to appeal to urban voters, suburban voters, but also red state democrats and rust belt swing voters.

No matter what party, GOP or democrat, elections are about convincing people to vote for you. So the game is always the same. It is about general ideas that appeal to more people than those you run against.

Trump ran a gimmick. That asshole played upon fear of others and sold it as an episode of Jerry Springer. He played upon white economic anxiety and used fear to do it.

It is not wrong for dems to say, " All zip codes of middle and working class are hurting."

What Trump and the GOP will continue to do which they have done for decades, is to use social issues to convince their supporters that anyone questioning wealth are Stalin loving communists, and any minority saying they are equal are merely lazy mooches. That successful GOP tactic also convinces white Rural Walmart workers and white farmers to vote against their own self interests.

Beto can't wash the New Dem smell off of himself. I won't vote for him under any circumstances.

I'm not telling you that the dumpster fire in chief -isn't- running game on his constituency, ofc he is.  I honestly doubt that there's a GOP anymore, personally, the party of trump shivved it.  Still..yeah, they'll continue to do what's been working for them. On the other side of that coin, however, is that if the american left is interested in appealing to "all americans" rather than simply mouthing those words in an attempt to manufacture the appearance...then they, and you, are going to have to come to grips with exactly who you're appealing to, and how you're doing to have to do it.

I think that it's a bad idea, to use the example I offered before, to appeal to white supremacy in order to avoid fascism, but if the left wants to do that then it should do it out in the open.  You should understand that this is what you're going to have to do whether you like it or not.  So, for an example.  Beto used to talk about tearing down these walls...but that's tapered off, and he lost, so I'd expect to hear even less of it than before as he runs for a higher office and has to appeal to WALL fetishists.  

Alot of people will see that as somehow being inauthentic, pandering to polling...but what do we expect a genuine "appeal to all americans" to look like if -not- for that?

(March 14, 2019 at 10:20 am)Yonadav Wrote: Beto can't wash the New Dem smell off of himself. I won't vote for him under any circumstances.

I cannot stress this enough.

Bernie wasn't back then, and is not now for me the problem. The problem is you and your purist attitude.

I am going to vote for anyone we nominate. If you are unwilling to, you are proving my point.

If you claim you voted for Obama, then if you don't want to listen to me, maybe you should listen to him. I doubt you'd ever get Obama to say, "Fuck democrats if we don't get the nomination we want."


Now again, I am tired of this purist bullshit. Keep this bullshit up and you will give the orange turd 8 years, and worse, fuck up the Supreme Court beyond repair.

Brian, lol, he's trolling you.  His entire gimmick is to rail against party purity while simultaneously decrying impure new dems, lol.

(March 14, 2019 at 10:43 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Brian, lol, he's trolling you.  His entire gimmick is to rail against party purity while simultaneously decrying impure new dems, lol.

Um  no, Yov isn't trolling me. He is not the only Bernie purist. And he fails to see that Hillary also had her purists. 

I am sure he truly believes the crap he is spewing. 

My point is, and continues to be, we cannot afford division in the general ad dems. 

I do like our field. I like Bernie, I like Beto, I like Harris, I like Warren and I like Booker.

I do worry however, not about the individual candidates, but about purists of any camp as supporters. I am quite sure that Beto, the individual, himself, will not say, "Fuck dems if I don't get the nomination." I am damned sure Beto will say, even if he doesn't get nominated, "Back up our nominee."

You're going to have to appeal to the purists, too, if the idea is to appeal to all americans.  That's part of what makes it unworkable.  Not only are they purists, the purists interests are diametrically opposed, making any broad appeal to all americans a stumping slogan.

It's politics, not policy (let alone a good policy).

Appeal to the americans who support good policies, let the deplorabros do what they're going to do. They will anyway. /twocents

(March 14, 2019 at 10:34 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: I'm not telling you that the dumpster fire in chief -isn't- running game on his constituency, ofc he is.  I honestly doubt that there's a GOP anymore, personally, the party of trump shivved it.  Still..yeah, they'll continue to do what's been working for them. On the other side of that coin, however, is that if the american left is interested in appealing to "all americans" rather than simply mouthing those words in an attempt to manufacture the appearance...then they, and you, are going to have to come to grips with exactly who you're appealing to, and how you're doing to have to do it.

I think that it's a bad idea, to use the example I offered before, to appeal to white supremacy in order to avoid fascism, but if the left wants to do that then it should do it out in the open.  You should understand that this is what you're going to have to do whether you like it or not.  So, for an example.  Beto used to talk about tearing down these walls...but that's tapered off, and he lost, so I'd expect to hear even less of it than before as he runs for a higher office and has to appeal to WALL fetishists.  

Alot of people will see that as somehow being inauthentic, pandering to polling...but what do we expect a genuine "appeal to all americans" to look like if -not- for that?

You might try taking those blinders off, for one. There's no such thing as appealing to all Americans, and trying to specifically appeal to a set of winning demographics is inherently pandering.

Being honest about the issues is a good place to start, and your constant blather about white supremacists isn't honest. I have never seen a guy more determined to piss off working class white people than you. You want to brand them all as white supremacists, and when that pisses people off you claim that this proves that they are white supremacists. A huge part of the left is working class whites, and you are trying to alienate them all. It's enough to make me think that you are a poe who is really a Republican trying trying to alienate working class white people from the left. This isn't a very politically active forum, so maybe you just practice your bullshit here.

I don't want to vote for a person who just says things for demographic appeal. I want the party to shift to the left, and a New Dem isn't going to shift the party to the left no matter what they are willing to say to win an election. The New Dems are inherently Reagan Democrats with a few socially liberal positions mixed in for broader appeal. They are going to be Reagan Democrats no matter what.  I am not going to vote for one of them, no matter what.