(March 15, 2019 at 7:53 am)TaraJo Wrote:

(March 14, 2019 at 9:41 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Maybe we could get a comment on that from Tara.  What would you do if it looked like Mr. Hands was about to become Mr. Fists?

Yeah, that's why I have that rule for myself.  That's why I tell myself I need to tell a guy before it goes all hands and all.  

And also, yeah, I agree that all parties should have all significant information before engaging in activities like this.  While I'm not exactly lying that I'm a woman, I also know that there's a significant enough difference between myself and a cis woman that it matters.

So, that's the key to my problem:  I have the rule, I know, intellectually, what I need to do.  But when the time comes, I really resist doing it.  And last weekend could have gone REALLY bad for me.  If I had invited a guy back to my plalce without him knowing, it could have gotten even worse.  I guess my question is, how do I get myself to follow my rule when I know I should follow when I really don't want to?  I don't know if any of your experiences can relate with what I'm asking about because it's so damn hard to find something to accurately compare this to.

I'm probably going to piss you off. First, fear of being assaulted after the guy encounters penis surprise isn't the primary reason that you should tell them first, before things get intimate. The primary reason that you should inform them before things get intimate is that you want to do sexual things with them that they might not be willing to consent to. You want to do something sexual, and you are in exactly the same position as anyone else who wants to do something sexual with someone who might not consent. You can't do it. If you go ahead and do it anyway, and penis surprise turns out to be completely unwelcome, then you factually molested that person.

I really am sorry to be so blunt. I completely understand that you just want to be like other women, and it's hard to do that when you have to deal with this awkwardness when you've met someone who is interested in you.

(March 15, 2019 at 7:53 am)TaraJo Wrote:

(March 14, 2019 at 9:41 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Maybe we could get a comment on that from Tara.  What would you do if it looked like Mr. Hands was about to become Mr. Fists?

Yeah, that's why I have that rule for myself.  That's why I tell myself I need to tell a guy before it goes all hands and all.  

And also, yeah, I agree that all parties should have all significant information before engaging in activities like this.  While I'm not exactly lying that I'm a woman, I also know that there's a significant enough difference between myself and a cis woman that it matters.

So, that's the key to my problem:  I have the rule, I know, intellectually, what I need to do.  But when the time comes, I really resist doing it.  And last weekend could have gone REALLY bad for me.  If I had invited a guy back to my plalce without him knowing, it could have gotten even worse.  I guess my question is, how do I get myself to follow my rule when I know I should follow when I really don't want to?  I don't know if any of your experiences can relate with what I'm asking about because it's so damn hard to find something to accurately compare this to.

I think men and women both have difficulty following their "rules" when it comes to sex and intimacy. I know that it can be difficult for many women to insist on protection during sex, often with rationalizations for not doing so. And men constantly express misgivings about the time they "let the little head do the talking." So I don't think it's a problem that you alone face. Everybody has difficulty following their "rules" and saying, "timeout, we need to talk about X," when they're in the middle of a passionate moment. Heck, I know a lot of guys who claim it's difficult for them to talk at all during sex, and lack of communication in the bedroom is a perennial problem.

Just seconding the above, I think we all have rules like that, and we can all find ourselves over the line on accident or even see the line and intentionally play tippy-toe every now and again.

There were things that I used to tell people before we were together, things that I thought were likely to matter.  Probably alot more things that I didn't tell them that mattered even more.  None of that, though, played out in the context where I ever legitimately worried about my safety or where there was some notion that I could be raping a girl who had her hands all over me.  That much is definitely going to be hard to find an analog for.

If a girl wouldn't consent to intercourse with a bespoke man or a man with thirty girlfriends or a guy who spent a decade romping around foreign shitholes killing kids, but absent that knowledge is crawling all over him...well, he's lied to her by omission..I think, and he may have failed with regards to some moral responsibility. Beyond that, things seem stretched.

That's different than the actual physical body parts you use for a sexual interaction being not what is anticipated. At the very least, it's like ordering food at a restaurant in China when you know full well you've only got USD in your wallet.

If the issue is consent...and it must be if this is a rape, then that's what would count.  Had a surprise penis therefore Mr. Handy was raped, is, imo, dodgy.

I think we can all agree that it's best practice to mention surprise penis, and that some things stand out as more notable than others and that not all mentionable things are the same things..still. The rape angle seems extreme, to me, and a burden not shared by other things that could be just as important to consent.

The earlier example I offered of finding myself getting drunk with and feeling up a girl that would be underage in the states (and in my mind) seems to be similar in every relevant way, and it's hard for me to think of her as a rapist.

(March 15, 2019 at 2:05 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: If the issue is consent...and it must be if this is a rape, then that's what would count.  Had a surprise penis therefore Mr. Handy was raped, is, imo, dodgy.

I think we can all agree that it's best practice to mention surprise penis, and that some things stand out as more notable than others and that not all mentionable things are the same things..still.  The rape angle seems extreme, to me, and a burden not shared by other things that could be just as important to consent.

I changed it to molesting. If a guy doesn't want someone rubbing their penis up against them, that pretty much means any penis. Even the penis of someone who looks like a woman and led him to believe that there would be no penis. I'm sure that most women would agree that someone who rubs their junk up against them on some sort of false pretext is molesting them.

Even that seems a bridge too far, the girl I was feeling up certainly wasn't molesting me either...but it's just my opinion.

Well, I'm not a confused person with double standards. If a guy says that he did not give his consent to penis surprise and feels violated by it, I completely accept that he was violated.

.....?  I suppose that's an interesting take..but what I'm telling you is that I don't think that surprise penis amounts to rape or molestation anymore than surprise underage vag does.  If I'm Mr. Handy....I'm Mr Handy. I'm obviously going to think that a person probably should have told me, but I'm just not the kind of guy who starts flinging out words like rape and molestation when I go feeling around in someone else's pants. Nobody made me do that, and nothing was being done -to me-.. I clearly consented to it, and I'm the one reaching into pants.

: shrugs :

Be disgusted and not into it but not hostile. I might find it funny and disgusting, there's no need to throw punches because of it. At least not in the context of the situation as it's been described in this thread.

I think I answered this before in some other thread.

I've been to swingers clubs and clubs in the local gay village where transsexuals are common.

I've never been to one of these places and randomly done anything with a girl, I've always been with a girl I've taken with me. I think I can spot most transsexuals in person but maybe not I don't know.