1. The universe is 6,000-10,000 years old and complexity in nature is the result of intelligent design.

2. God created the earth in a perfect state in which there was no sin, disease, rot, death, and etc.

3. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, sin entered the world.  Along with sin came disease, rot, death, and etc.

4. Viruses and harmful bacteria are among the causes of disease. These are complex organisms* and hence are intelligently designed.  The effects of disease are the result of these organisms reproducing themselves.

5. Since disease did not exist prior to sin, viruses and harmful bacteria did not exist either.**

6. Sin has no will, consciousness, or ability to do anything. Some theologians do not even believe sin actually exists, analogous to how coldness does not truly exist but instead is a lack of heat (or holiness in the case of sin).  And yet, despite being functionally indistinguishable from nothingness, sin was able to effectively match the intelligent design put forth by God.

7. An effect brought about with no discernible cause and guided by no intelligence whatsoever should be indistinguishable from randomness.

8. Therefore, young earth creationists believe that complex organisms spontaneously popped into existence out of nothing by accident.





*Viruses are not technically alive.

**Or harmful bacteria did exist, but either were unable to metabolize (yet miraculously continued to live) or else metabolized but the effects miraculously did not manifest as disease. Further, viruses were inexplicably dormant.  Somehow, sin caused these miracles to permanently cease.

We have a thread for this.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-54759-page-1291.html

(April 3, 2019 at 2:56 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote: 1. The universe is 6,000-10,000 years old and complexity in nature is the result of intelligent design.

2. God created the earth in a perfect state in which there was no sin, disease, rot, death, and etc.

3. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, sin entered the world.  Along with sin came disease, rot, death, and etc.

4. Viruses and harmful bacteria are among the causes of disease. These are complex organisms* and hence are intelligently designed.  The effects of disease are the result of these organisms reproducing themselves.

5. Since disease did not exist prior to sin, viruses and harmful bacteria did not exist either.**

6. Sin has no will, consciousness, or ability to do anything. Some theologians do not even believe sin actually exists, analogous to how coldness does not truly exist but instead is a lack of heat (or holiness in the case of sin).  And yet, despite being functionally indistinguishable from nothingness, sin was able to effectively match the intelligent design put forth by God.

7. An effect brought about with no discernible cause and guided by no intelligence whatsoever should be indistinguishable from randomness.

8. Therefore, young earth creationists believe that complex organisms spontaneously popped into existence out of nothing by accident.





*Viruses are not technically alive.

**Or harmful bacteria did exist, but either were unable to metabolize (yet miraculously continued to live) or else metabolized but the effects miraculously did not manifest as disease. Further, viruses were inexplicably dormant.  Somehow, sin caused these miracles to permanently cease.

you do know that the above is known as a distinctive denominationally specific belief or teaching. why?because none of the 'religious facts' you mention are found anywhere in the bible.

meaning the time line you have given is artificial

2 the tree of of knowledge was the understanding of sin and thus the responsibility adam and eve and the rest of us are now responsible for this knowledge. It does not mean the world was sin free, it means before we knew what sin was it was not counted against us. Then death came to adam and eve not the rest of the world. only those who partook of the fruit of life had immortality. everything else died as per the norm. 

3 sin did enter the world via the garden meaning the world outside the garden was a result of evolution and when Adam and eve sined and where cast into the world their off spring where responsible for sin and/bringing sin into the world. Otherwise there is no indication the world did not already work as it always has.

4-8 are personal diatribe which has no bearing on anything but personal thought based on broken/bad rendition of theology.

Man has yet to reach his intelligence potential.

Therefore, it should be called Primitive Design or Desert Goat Herder Design.

man why do you call yourselves thinkers?

The bible would be the goat herders standard would it not?

If the bible is the standard and what I said was true then the OP does not even reach the goat hearders standard.. which mean it can not be call goat herders design now can it?

Intelligent design is creationism in a stolen lab coat.

I love how Christians think they came up with the first "origin of life" mythology. There are far older religions than Christians and Jews that have their own mythology as to how life and humans came about.

(April 4, 2019 at 11:21 am)Succubus Wrote: Intelligent design is creationism in a stolen lab coat.

Intelligent design is an unevolved monkey in a stolen lab coat mooning the lab door.

(April 4, 2019 at 11:13 am)Drich Wrote:

(April 3, 2019 at 2:56 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote: 1. The universe is 6,000-10,000 years old and complexity in nature is the result of intelligent design.

2. God created the earth in a perfect state in which there was no sin, disease, rot, death, and etc.

3. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, sin entered the world.  Along with sin came disease, rot, death, and etc.

4. Viruses and harmful bacteria are among the causes of disease. These are complex organisms* and hence are intelligently designed.  The effects of disease are the result of these organisms reproducing themselves.

5. Since disease did not exist prior to sin, viruses and harmful bacteria did not exist either.**

6. Sin has no will, consciousness, or ability to do anything. Some theologians do not even believe sin actually exists, analogous to how coldness does not truly exist but instead is a lack of heat (or holiness in the case of sin).  And yet, despite being functionally indistinguishable from nothingness, sin was able to effectively match the intelligent design put forth by God.

7. An effect brought about with no discernible cause and guided by no intelligence whatsoever should be indistinguishable from randomness.

8. Therefore, young earth creationists believe that complex organisms spontaneously popped into existence out of nothing by accident.





*Viruses are not technically alive.

**Or harmful bacteria did exist, but either were unable to metabolize (yet miraculously continued to live) or else metabolized but the effects miraculously did not manifest as disease. Further, viruses were inexplicably dormant.  Somehow, sin caused these miracles to permanently cease.

you do know that the above is known as a distinctive denominationally specific belief or teaching. why?because none of the 'religious facts' you mention are found anywhere in the bible.

meaning the time line you have given is artificial

2 the tree of of knowledge was the understanding of sin and thus the responsibility adam and eve and the rest of us are now responsible for this knowledge. It does not mean the world was sin free, it means before we knew what sin was it was not counted against us. Then death came to adam and eve not the rest of the world. only those who partook of the fruit of life had immortality. everything else died as per the norm. 

3 sin did enter the world via the garden meaning the world outside the garden was a result of evolution and when Adam and eve sined and where cast into the world their off spring where responsible for sin and/bringing sin into the world. Otherwise there is no indication the world did not already work as it always has.

4-8 are personal diatribe which has no bearing on anything but personal thought based on broken/bad rendition of theology.

I see you want to disavow creationism. I don't accept that. Not until we see Christians fighting creationism. You people leave it to atheists.

Then again I understand it's impossible to stand for anything if you're spineless.

(April 4, 2019 at 11:36 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote:

(April 4, 2019 at 11:13 am)Drich Wrote: you do know that the above is known as a distinctive denominationally specific belief or teaching. why?because none of the 'religious facts' you mention are found anywhere in the bible.

meaning the time line you have given is artificial

2 the tree of of knowledge was the understanding of sin and thus the responsibility adam and eve and the rest of us are now responsible for this knowledge. It does not mean the world was sin free, it means before we knew what sin was it was not counted against us. Then death came to adam and eve not the rest of the world. only those who partook of the fruit of life had immortality. everything else died as per the norm. 

3 sin did enter the world via the garden meaning the world outside the garden was a result of evolution and when Adam and eve sined and where cast into the world their off spring where responsible for sin and/bringing sin into the world. Otherwise there is no indication the world did not already work as it always has.

4-8 are personal diatribe which has no bearing on anything but personal thought based on broken/bad rendition of theology.

I see you want to disavow creationism. I don't accept that. Not until we see Christians fighting creationism. You people leave it to atheists.

Then again I understand it's impossible to stand for anything if you're spineless.

are you stupid or just forgetful?

I have completely assimilated the whole of evolution into creationism, and have been teaching this from like the first week i got to this web site.

Not one of you have been able to put a dent in my hypothesis that combines the two theories. It does not change one word of the bible nor one word of evolution. it does what i did here. it simply takes off the presupposed times lines religious people on the bible 1000s of years after the fact.

In short chapter 1:1 to chapter 2:3 tell of the seven creation of the world only, with evolved man being seeded the 6th day by the Father

While chapter 2:4 is the telling of the Work of the word/Jesus in the garden starting mid day 3 and ending mid day 4. this includes the creation of the garden and everything in it apart from the father's 7 days of creation. While God the father creates evolved man out side the garden on day six Jesus creates adam with a soul on day 3. now from the end on chapter two which is end of day 4 to the beginning of chapter 3 is where I am saying all of evolution takes place.

Now 6000 to 10000 years ago was when chapter 3 begins and the fall of man happens. but before then Adam lived as a imortal being with God in the garden with eve for however long 'science say needed to happen for the rest of the world to evolve to the point where the garden was 6000 years ago.

Again I have not changed a single word in the bible just re examined how it is read and eliminated the artificial time lines. which again allow for full scientific dawin evoution to happen in a seven day creation