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Best arguments for or against God's existence
#1
Best arguments for or against God's existence
What do you think? I'd lean toward maybe a cosmological or design argument for God's existence, and some incompatible properties argument in opposing it (e.g. God can't have free will plus omniscience). Or do you think no such arguments can be had, in either (maybe both) cases?
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#2
RE: Best arguments for or against God's existence
(May 21, 2019 at 8:16 pm)mcc1789 Wrote: What do you think? I'd lean toward maybe a cosmological or design argument for God's existence, and some incompatible properties argument in opposing it (e.g. God can't have free will plus omniscience). Or do you think no such arguments can be had, in either (maybe both) cases?

Why would anyone  "lean" or assume that a "design" argument is even required?

The universe was not "designed" like a a factory "designs" a product. It was not started buy a super cognition. 

It makes no sense to claim a "all powerful being" did it, or to even claim "all this" was put here for humans, knowing that the universe is 13.8 billion years old, and our planet in that time is only 4 billion years old. Not to mention since evolution began, the planet has had 5 mass extinction events, as to which 99% of prior life has gone extinct. And in that 4 billion years humans have only been around in our current form for 200,000 years and also of which we have only had writing for a mere 10,000 years. On top of that Science has really only exploded in speed of discovery in the past 200 years. 

Cockroaches and bacteria outnumber humans and have existed far longer. Seems a waste to me, to be an "all powerful" god, to waste all that material and time if humans are the center of the universe.

How about considering the obvious? There is no God, gods/deities or any super cognition. How about considering that god claims are merely a psychological reflection of human's desires in mythological form? Much like you can understand that a dog barking at it's own reflection in the mirror is confusing it's reflection for another separate dog?
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#3
RE: Best arguments for or against God's existence
(May 21, 2019 at 8:16 pm)mcc1789 Wrote: What do you think? I'd lean toward maybe a cosmological or design argument for God's existence, and some incompatible properties argument in opposing it (e.g. God can't have free will plus omniscience). Or do you think no such arguments can be had, in either (maybe both) cases?

I would say that the cosmological argument and the design argument are the best in a sea of shitty arguments. The ontological argument takes the cake for the stupidest argument ever. But the argument from morality pisses me off the most.

In the realm of arguments that prove that faith in God is rational, I think William James makes a pretty good case in "The Will to Believe." If anything, it's a thought-provoking essay from a theist that I think all atheists who are interested in philosophy of religion should read.

As for arguments against God's existence... well... it's kinda like arguments against the existence of the tooth fairy. There is no solid disproof. You just have to look at what evidence is available and draw the most sensible conclusion.
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#4
RE: Best arguments for or against God's existence
"Best arguments for or against God's existence?"

Uhm... none of the current ideas/thoughts/argments/(Instert pretty much anything else that isn't actual objective information/evidence) are coherant... or make actual sense... Or seem to match up with reality in any way....

Hope that helps.

Not at work.
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#5
RE: Best arguments for or against God's existence
All arguments for gods reinforce my disbelief in what believers argue.
Brevity, soul, wit!









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#6
RE: Best arguments for or against God's existence
(May 21, 2019 at 8:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(May 21, 2019 at 8:16 pm)mcc1789 Wrote: What do you think? I'd lean toward maybe a cosmological or design argument for God's existence, and some incompatible properties argument in opposing it (e.g. God can't have free will plus omniscience). Or do you think no such arguments can be had, in either (maybe both) cases?

Why would anyone  "lean" or assume that a "design" argument is even required?

The universe was not "designed" like a a factory "designs" a product. It was not started buy a super cognition. 

It makes no sense to claim a "all powerful being" did it, or to even claim "all this" was put here for humans, knowing that the universe is 13.8 billion years old, and our planet in that time is only 4 billion years old. Not to mention since evolution began, the planet has had 5 mass extinction events, as to which 99% of prior life has gone extinct. And in that 4 billion years humans have only been around in our current form for 200,000 years and also of which we have only had writing for a mere 10,000 years. On top of that Science has really only exploded in speed of discovery in the past 200 years. 

Cockroaches and bacteria outnumber humans and have existed far longer. Seems a waste to me, to be an "all powerful" god, to waste all that material and time if humans are the center of the universe.

How about considering the obvious? There is no God, gods/deities or any super cognition. How about considering that god claims are merely a psychological reflection of human's desires in mythological form? Much like you can understand that a dog barking at it's own reflection in the mirror is confusing it's reflection for another separate dog?

I mean it only in the sense of vulcanlogician above. Like you, I don't believe this.
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#7
RE: Best arguments for or against God's existence
IMO, presuppositional apologetics are the most useful rhetorical device, while arguments from personal experience are the most effective.    

Against, for the abrahamics, at least, the fact that magic book is manifestly untrue from cover to cover.  More broadly, the human origins of god stories and their attributions through time and across cultures.  It gets dropped as an offhand remark, alot, but I don't think that the faithful truly appreciate how immensely unlikely it would be that their completely fictional god stories just so happened to line up with some existent being somewhere.  Whether there are gods or not, we know the source and nature of our stories about them. Tim Minchin, of all people (lol) nailed it.

"Fuck me Sam, what are the odds, that of history's endless parade of gods....."
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for a battle to commence then KPLOW, I hit em with the illness of my quill, Im endowed..with certain unalienable skills....  

-ERB


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#8
RE: Best arguments for or against God's existence
For  .... He personally talks to me

Against .... Time for your medication  Hehe
Religion is the top shelf of the supernatural supermarket ... Madog
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#9
RE: Best arguments for or against God's existence
(May 21, 2019 at 8:50 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: I would say that the cosmological argument and the design argument are the best in a sea of shitty arguments. The ontological argument takes the cake for the stupidest argument ever. But the argument from morality pisses me off the most.
Except of course the moral argument is just another design argument, the only real difference between it and other design arguments is that’s it more like the design of a novel, than an engineering project.

Such arguments are derived from the perception of intrinsic meaning and purpose, like a novel might possess, they are teleological arguments, just a different sort.
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#10
RE: Best arguments for or against God's existence
(May 22, 2019 at 12:23 am)Acrobat Wrote: Except of course the moral argument is just another design argument, the only real difference between it and other design arguments is that’s it more like the design of a novel, than an engineering project.

Such arguments are derived from the perception of intrinsic meaning and purpose, like a novel might possess, they are teleological arguments, just a different sort.

Do you think the argument from morality holds water?
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