Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 16, 2019 at 11:45 am
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2019 at 11:46 am by LadyForCamus.)
(July 16, 2019 at 11:15 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: (July 16, 2019 at 11:04 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Can you describe non-existence to me without actually describing some thing?
The opposite of "existence".
lol, exactly. You can’t. Non-existence, by definition, can’t be anything at all, including a state of affairs alternative to existence. Can we agree on that at least?
Quote:You’re going to have to elaborate on that, and provide some evidential support.
Quote:Name anything that "exists" that does not have some description, or property, or definition.
Im sorry; I’m not following. You said reality is more complex than just existence. I’m asking you to clarify what you mean by that.
Quote:This sentence is self-refuting. If non-existence, or ‘no things at all’ was a thing that came from somewhere, then it’s something, not nothing
Quote:I never agreed to any of your assumptions.
What assumptions are you talking about specifically?
Quote:Totally depends on the assumptions and definitions given and agreed to.
I say it's a category. Does everything you can possibly imagine "exist" ?
Of course not. Can you imagine no things existing at all? What is your mind’s eye seeing?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 2278
Threads: 9
Joined: October 3, 2013
Reputation:
25
RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 16, 2019 at 11:56 am
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2019 at 12:21 pm by Bucky Ball.)
"Non-existence" is a category. It exists in your mind.
Existence is nothing other than a descriptive category.
There are "things".
We *describe* them as having *existence*. They don't actually *have* (any additional) "thing" (called existence).
It's a linguistic category we find useful for description.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell 
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist
Posts: 2752
Threads: 4
Joined: September 21, 2018
Reputation:
33
RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 16, 2019 at 12:56 pm
(July 16, 2019 at 9:37 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: (July 16, 2019 at 8:15 am)Belaqua Wrote: Can you point me to the place in Thomas's works where he says that a being "decides to create" and then creates? All of the books about Thomas I've read are clear that, in his view, there is no decision involved -- no change or temporal element in creation. You are correct that this would require mental movement, and this is why both the Thomists and the Neoplatonists rule it out.
Kind of sounds like the act of creation was involuntary.
Like god was, in fact, a universe farting pixie?
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 16, 2019 at 1:03 pm
(July 16, 2019 at 12:56 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: (July 16, 2019 at 9:37 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Kind of sounds like the act of creation was involuntary.
Like god was, in fact, a universe farting pixie?
Matt D. ❤️
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 16, 2019 at 1:11 pm
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2019 at 1:14 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(July 16, 2019 at 11:56 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: "Non-existence" is a category. It exists in your mind.
Existence is nothing other than a descriptive category.
correct.
Quote:There are "things".
Agreed.
Quote:We *describe* them as having *existence*. They don't actually *have* (any additional) "thing" (called existence).
Also agreed. I would even say that the statement: “X exists” is a tautology if X does, in fact, exist. I don’t think Bel disagrees with any of this, but I’ll let him answer for himself from this point forward.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 13901
Threads: 263
Joined: January 11, 2009
Reputation:
82
RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 16, 2019 at 1:34 pm
(July 16, 2019 at 3:33 am)Belaqua Wrote: (July 16, 2019 at 3:09 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: The first cause "did something" they never go on to say how it did it or offer any evidence. Where did the immaterial being get the stuff? how did it start it? Just saying it did it seems to be enough for them.
In the Aristotelian and Thomist system, the First Cause takes no action. It is not an immaterial being.
So the first cause literally does nothing, with nothing and that's how you get a universe.
Right. (please inject as much sarcasm as you can into that)
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
Posts: 2278
Threads: 9
Joined: October 3, 2013
Reputation:
25
RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 16, 2019 at 1:40 pm
(July 16, 2019 at 1:34 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: (July 16, 2019 at 3:33 am)Belaqua Wrote: In the Aristotelian and Thomist system, the First Cause takes no action. It is not an immaterial being.
So the first cause literally does nothing, with nothing and that's how you get a universe.
Right. (please inject as much sarcasm as you can into that)
Actually in the Thomistic system it does "do" something. It both "conceives" of it, and then "wills" it into existence.
(We now know "will" is a term which meant something to Aquinas and probably no longer means anything.)
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist
Posts: 400
Threads: 0
Joined: November 4, 2014
Reputation:
3
RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 16, 2019 at 8:38 pm
the best evidence is when observations about the system we are in match the observations about the god they are pushing.
anti-logical Fallacies of Ambiguity
Posts: 400
Threads: 0
Joined: November 4, 2014
Reputation:
3
RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 17, 2019 at 7:44 am
when they align the properties for their god to the properties of the universe I agree with them.
when they don't,
I don't.
anti-logical Fallacies of Ambiguity
Posts: 18503
Threads: 79
Joined: May 29, 2010
Reputation:
125
RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 17, 2019 at 8:42 am
This is the thing. Much value to philosophy, as it given us much in discipline of thought, yet it has been whored, DAP'd, gangbanged beyond all recognition.
I usually ask a philosopher "does that come with fries?".
|
