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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 12:01 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 12:05 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Clogged ears. You’ve already demonstrated that you don’t have command of this vocabulary, and strongly resent any suggestion that you should learn it.
What, then, would qualify you to make such determinations?
-All- moral beliefs are brain states. Non cog, subjectivist, relativist, realist, error theorist.
All of them. The demonstrably true observation that evolutionary biology has provided us with the means to apprehend -whatever it is- we’re apprehending does not and cannot certify a meta ethical position.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 12:05 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 12:07 pm by GrandizerII.)
(August 13, 2019 at 12:00 pm)Acrobat Wrote: (August 13, 2019 at 11:39 am)Grandizer Wrote: The light would be millions of years of evolution + natural selection, not God.
2 isn't contained in any of the physical objects, but we have mathematical model that represents the separateness of one object from another identical object as "2". Similarly, "bad" isn't concretely contained in any physical act but if the act causes severe harm to millions of people, then due mainly to evolutionary conditioning we will see it is strongly "bad" (and if we're good moral philosophers [which I'm not], articulate the reasons exactly).
Just give it up. I'm revoking your membership into the moral realist club. You no longer subscribe to view of good as objective, but appear to be dwindling your way into the emotivist camp. Where good and bad, are just brain states.
I think your views would perhaps find a better home among them.
So it seems I can only be a realist if I adhere to what you think is realism. Oh well, not my problem. I'm satisfied with my current position (if there is a flaw in my reasoning, you haven't been successful in pointing it out), and have no logical need for any extraneous god to consolidate it.
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 12:08 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 12:16 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You can only be a realist if you adhere to the standard of realism apart from us both.
Which is exactly how moral realism proceeds, as well.
I get that you’re satisfied with your current position. You simply aren’t satisfied with the terms that accurately describe it.
That’s why I keep telling you to own them. If that’s how you think morality works, that’s how you think morality works.
Watching a supernatural subjectivist attempt to take a bunch of natural realists to task over their “subjectivism” has been fucking precious.
Just as watching you repeatedly whip out your dick and stomp it all to shit has been. If you need no reference to a god, then why would anyone else, and how can you explain your confusion as to how atheists justify their moral positions?
How, in short, can you explain the entirety of your interactions on this board?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 12:25 pm
(August 13, 2019 at 6:04 am)Acrobat Wrote: (August 12, 2019 at 11:54 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: A fucking troll is all I can figure. Acro will go down in AF history as the guy who doesn’t know why torturing babies is bad. Nay; he’ll be known as the guy who’d rather be known as the guy who doesn’t know why torturing babies is bad, than be known as the Christian who admits there are reasons why torturing babies is bad that have nothing to do with a god. That’s some reputation to have following you around for net-ternity.
I’ll take that as a yes, that is the type of answer you were looking for. Now I tried to explain why that answer regardless if I gave it, or anyone else here gave it doesn’t answer your question as to why it’s “objectively wrong”.
Imagine if I claimed that good and bad when it comes to pizza is objective, rejecting those that suggest it’s subjective:
And you ask me why is dominos pizza objectively good?
I start describing to you the physical facts of the pizza, the ratio of cheese to crust the variety of toppings, the degree of crispness.
Perhaps you can see why this response doesn’t actually answer the question? It doesn’t establish the “objectiveness” of good here.
Perhaps you recall Grandizer indicating that good and bad are not in the physical properties of anything, they’re not anywhere.
So when the question is what is “objectively wrong” about x, the answer isn’t anywhere in the physical description of x, or it’s consequences, etc...
The type of answer you’re expecting, that you’re frustrated with me for not providing, is one that doesn’t actually answer the question, it just pulls the wool over your eyes.
First of all, comparing physical facts about harm to living beings to physical facts about a cheese pizza is a terrible analogy. Let’s try this another way:
Group A “just knows” torturing babies is good, and group B “just knows” torturing babies is bad. Both groups cannot be right, and both groups have a confidence level in their knowledge of 100%. How do we determine who is objectively right?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 12:26 pm
(August 13, 2019 at 12:08 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: You can only be a realist if you adhere to the standard of realism apart from us both.
Which is exactly how moral realism proceeds, as well.
I get that you’re satisfied with your current position. You simply aren’t satisfied with the terms that accurately describe it.
That’s why I keep telling you to own them. If that’s how you think morality works, that’s how you think morality works.
Watching a supernatural subjectivist attempt to take a bunch of natural realists to task over their “subjectivism” has been fucking precious.
Just as watching you repeatedly whip out your dick and stomp it all to shit has been. If you need no reference to a god, then why would anyone else, and how can you explain your confusion as to how atheists justify their moral positions?
How, in short, can you explain the entirety of your interactions on this board?
Who are you quoting? You're referring to what I said, but then it seems like you're addressing Acrobat but Acro just kudosed you despite you referring to him as a supernatural subjectivist.
So I'm confused now. And it's 2:26 AM, so time to sleep, lol
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 12:28 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 12:33 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Lol, yeah, crossed wires. Ofc, the comments as to what it means to be a realist stand, by definition.
By definition, you’re a realist, I’m a realist, lfc is is a realist....in fact I’ve never known any non realist to interact with Acro on these issues.
These threads always go this way. Atheists don’t commonly realize that they’re realists, non realist theists call their incoherent beliefs “realism”, and atheists say “ well I’m not that”.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 12:32 pm
(August 13, 2019 at 12:28 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Lol, yeah, crossed wires. Ofc, the comments as to what it means to be a realist stand, by definition.
By definition, you’re a realist, I’m a realist, lfc is is a realist....in fact I’ve never known any non realist to interact with Acro on these issues.
Makes sense, lol
FTR, I enjoy whipping out my dick from time to time. Maybe not the stomping it to shit, though.
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 12:34 pm
Well, you never know till you try it, but it might be worth splurging on a pretty girl to do it for you.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 12:35 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 12:42 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(August 13, 2019 at 11:28 am)Acrobat Wrote: (August 13, 2019 at 10:29 am)Grandizer Wrote: We're still doing the assigning of "right/wrong" (as a species), but we base the judgement on external acts.
Your light analogy, once again, indicates to me that you believe murder is wrong because of the Good. I can't accept that because it implies divine arbitrariness.
No I'm indicating that the reason both of us see wrong, is a result of the light, just as we see the objects in our rooms because of the light. You're making the mistake of conflating the object with the light of Goodness itself.
We both acknowledge that right and wrong/good and bad are objective truths. But you just try and brush the objectiveness of good, in a series of scientific/descriptive facts about x, when x contains no such thing.
As you conceded the good doesn't exist somewhere in the physical descriptions of any actions or things.
lol, ofc it does. Objective good and bad can absolutely be descriptors with regard to physical facts. FFS Acro, if someone chops off my head, that is indisputably, objectively bad for my living body. Putting “the” in front of “good” does not magically elevate the concept to god status, lol.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 12:40 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 12:41 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Realism of any kind is, by definition, the notion that good and bad are factual descriptors of an object.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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