(August 25, 2019 at 6:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But that's got nothing to do with vetting. 

Boru

edit:  Whaddya mean 'now we are getting somewhere'?  I asked you that pages and pages ago.

YES IT DOES....

It is the same fucking principle as a bar asking for ID instead of looking at the teen and assuming they are 21.

If the NRA LOGIC worked like that, then I should be able to fly a passenger Jet just because I have never gotten a DWI despite having driven home drunk without getting caught 1,000 times. I personally don't drink and drive, just making a metaphor. 

I am NOT, nor have ever argued ending all firearm sales. 

I am saying the industry CEOs whom sale the products should give a shit, BUT THEY DO NOT.

AGAIN, this thread IS NOT the first thread or post on this subject,  and I have listed tons of ideas I think could help reduce firearm violence.  


NOTHING will work as long as the right and firearm worshipers ignore facts.

You're not going to get rational responses from the usual suspects, Brian.

(August 25, 2019 at 6:21 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: You're not going to get rational responses from the usual suspects, Brian.

MISSEN LISTER! (Meaning "Listen Mister")  It is hurricane season so...... Pick your battles. Do you want to support Dirty Harry morons, or do you want to get satisfaction out of an insecure baby like me, whom you emotionally prevented me from committing suicide? I made it home because of you!

(August 25, 2019 at 6:25 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(August 25, 2019 at 6:21 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: You're not going to get rational responses from the usual suspects, Brian.

MISSEN LISTER! (Meaning "Listen Mister")  It is hurricane season so...... Pick your battles. Do you want to support Dirty Harry morons, or do you want to get satisfaction out of an insecure baby like me, whom you emotionally prevented me from committing suicide? I made it home because of you!

Incoherence level 10.

(August 25, 2019 at 6:28 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(August 25, 2019 at 6:25 pm)Brian37 Wrote: MISSEN LISTER! (Meaning "Listen Mister")  It is hurricane season so...... Pick your battles. Do you want to support Dirty Harry morons, or do you want to get satisfaction out of an insecure baby like me, whom you emotionally prevented me from committing suicide? I made it home because of you!

Incoherence level 10.  

Ok,  

You gun owner.... SANE

Me, hurricane baby, you're still sane.

Others who own guns, "Brian is crazy'

Me, "Um blunt is not the same as crazy"

You get me............ Both on guns and hurricanes.

I doubt you'd sell me a gun if you owned a shop, bu't I 'd damned sure trust you to save my ass, which you did.

(August 25, 2019 at 6:20 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(August 25, 2019 at 6:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But that's got nothing to do with vetting. 

Boru

edit:  Whaddya mean 'now we are getting somewhere'?  I asked you that pages and pages ago.

YES IT DOES....

It is the same fucking principle as a bar asking for ID instead of looking at the teen and assuming they are 21.

If the NRA LOGIC worked like that, then I should be able to fly a passenger Jet just because I have never gotten a DWI despite having driven home drunk without getting caught 1,000 times. I personally don't drink and drive, just making a metaphor. 

I am NOT, nor have ever argued ending all firearm sales. 

I am saying the industry CEOs whom sale the products should give a shit, BUT THEY DO NOT.

AGAIN, this thread IS NOT the first thread or post on this subject,  and I have listed tons of ideas I think could help reduce firearm violence.  


NOTHING will work as long as the right and firearm worshipers ignore facts.

Banning large clips isn't vetting. Banning weapons of war (whatever that means) isn't vetting.  Extending waiting periods isn't vetting. Vetting (in this topic) means determining who is and isn't allowed to purchase firearms.

So, again.  Someone passes a background check.  This person fulfills the waiting period.  This person shows no signs of having plans to harm someone.  In this case, what standards would you use to keep this person from obtaining a firearm at the point of sale?

Boru

(August 25, 2019 at 5:56 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:Saying that we need better vetting at time of sale isn't oppression.

And I'm asking what form this vetting should take.  What specific changes would you like to see in the system?

Boru

When purchasing a firearm, the purchaser fills out paperwork that goes to the gov for vetting. This is Federal law. There is a mandatory 2 week wait, and the time is literally kept. If you finalized a purchase of a firearm at 11 AM, you may not get delivery until after 11 AM two weeks later. This delivery is also recorded in a database with a time stamp. If you show up early you stand around until the clock ticks over. Here in California, it was a three-week wait, but the Federal law superseded that a few years ago (don't recall how many years, can't be bothered to look, doesn't matter). The purchaser is further required to take training (can be self-study) and pass a test to get a Firearm Safety Certificate. No pass, no cert, can't have gun. Further, the operation of the firearm is explained to the purchaser, who must sign off that they have been instructed on how to use said firearm prior to delivery. New rules have been instituted for ammunition purchase (California only at this time, but coming for the rest of the states eventually). Every purchaser must be registered in a database with their respective state's Department of Justice. Not registered? Can't buy ammunition. Once registered, every purchase of ammunition is recorded with the State DoJ, complete with the number of rounds purchased. Since my firearm purchases were prior to 2014, I had to do that last registration recently. Those purchases had a 3-week waiting period under the old California law.

Use of Federally controlled substances such as marijuana means one is prohibited from possessing or purchasing firearms or ammunition, whether the states have allowed them to be used or not.

Handed out like candy, eh? Shee-it.

(August 20, 2019 at 8:19 am)onlinebiker Wrote: I used to think they were a good idea. Taking guns away from a deranged individual sounds good on the face of it - but would it work?

Probably not.

Why not? Very simple.

It depends on the honest cooperation of a deranged individual.

Consider - when the cops go into someone's house to confiscate guns - how do they know when they have them all? Answer - they have to ask - and trust - the deranged individual in question if they have all the guns.

See the problem?

You think that just MAYBE the guy might have a gun - or 30 stashed somewhere?

Think about this - prisoners in maximum security prisons manage to hide weapons. You think a guy who is free can't manage that trick?

Then also consider - might confiscating some of the guy's guns push him over the edge - and send him out on a killing spree?

Nope. You can't make the world safer by taking away a few guns. You can make it somewhat safer by locking people up.

Are you ready to start locking people up without a trial?

These propositions have huge potential for abuse by the state.

(August 25, 2019 at 6:41 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(August 25, 2019 at 5:56 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: And I'm asking what form this vetting should take.  What specific changes would you like to see in the system?

Boru

When purchasing a firearm, the purchaser fills out paperwork that goes to the gov for vetting. This is Federal law. There is a mandatory 2 week wait, and the time is literally kept. If you finalized a purchase of a firearm at 11 AM, you may not get delivery until after 11 AM two weeks later. This delivery is also recorded in a database with a time stamp. If you show up early you stand around until the clock ticks over. Here in California, it was a three-week wait, but the Federal law superseded that a few years ago (don't recall how many years, can't be bothered to look, doesn't matter). The purchaser is further required to take training (can be self-study) and pass a test to get a Firearm Safety Certificate. No pass, no cert, can't have gun. Further, the operation of the firearm is explained to the purchaser, who must sign off that they have been instructed on how to use said firearm prior to delivery. New rules have been instituted for ammunition purchase (California only at this time, but coming for the rest of the states eventually). Every purchaser must be registered in a database with their respective state's Department of Justice. Not registered? Can't buy ammunition. Once registered, every purchase of ammunition is recorded with the State DoJ, complete with the number of rounds purchased. Since my firearm purchases were prior to 2014, I had to do that last registration recently. Those purchases had a 3-week waiting period under the old California law.

Use of Federally controlled substances such as marijuana means one is prohibited from possessing or purchasing firearms or ammunition, whether the states have allowed them to be used or not.

Handed out like candy, eh? Shee-it.

See, all of that makes perfect sense to me.  But Brian seems to think that, even after all of the proper procedures have been gone through, the seller can stop the sale at the last second because he has some sort of a gut feeling about the buyer.

Boru

(August 25, 2019 at 6:41 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(August 25, 2019 at 5:56 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: And I'm asking what form this vetting should take.  What specific changes would you like to see in the system?

Boru

When purchasing a firearm, the purchaser fills out paperwork that goes to the gov for vetting. This is Federal law. There is a mandatory 2 week wait, and the time is literally kept. If you finalized a purchase of a firearm at 11 AM, you may not get delivery until after 11 AM two weeks later. This delivery is also recorded in a database with a time stamp. If you show up early you stand around until the clock ticks over. Here in California, it was a three-week wait, but the Federal law superseded that a few years ago (don't recall how many years, can't be bothered to look, doesn't matter). The purchaser is further required to take training (can be self-study) and pass a test to get a Firearm Safety Certificate. No pass, no cert, can't have gun. Further, the operation of the firearm is explained to the purchaser, who must sign off that they have been instructed on how to use said firearm prior to delivery. New rules have been instituted for ammunition purchase (California only at this time, but coming for the rest of the states eventually). Every purchaser must be registered in a database with their respective state's Department of Justice. Not registered? Can't buy ammunition. Once registered, every purchase of ammunition is recorded with the State DoJ, complete with the number of rounds purchased. Since my firearm purchases were prior to 2014, I had to do that last registration recently. Those purchases had a 3-week waiting period under the old California law.

Use of Federally controlled substances such as marijuana means one is prohibited from possessing or purchasing firearms or ammunition, whether the states have allowed them to be used or not.

Handed out like candy, eh? Shee-it.

Wow, then that still means we STILL hand out firearms like candy.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Does anyone really think these same laws, if we go by this post APPLY in Australia or New Zealand?

I SERIOUSLY FUCKING DOUBT IT!

I'll make any American firearm cum guzzling ammo facial porn lover a deal. Get America to the same level of firearm death as say Australia or New Zealand or Japan, then I WILL be happy to shut the fuck up.

---

(August 25, 2019 at 6:44 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 25, 2019 at 6:41 pm)Fireball Wrote: When purchasing a firearm, the purchaser fills out paperwork that goes to the gov for vetting. This is Federal law. There is a mandatory 2 week wait, and the time is literally kept. If you finalized a purchase of a firearm at 11 AM, you may not get delivery until after 11 AM two weeks later. This delivery is also recorded in a database with a time stamp. If you show up early you stand around until the clock ticks over. Here in California, it was a three-week wait, but the Federal law superseded that a few years ago (don't recall how many years, can't be bothered to look, doesn't matter). The purchaser is further required to take training (can be self-study) and pass a test to get a Firearm Safety Certificate. No pass, no cert, can't have gun. Further, the operation of the firearm is explained to the purchaser, who must sign off that they have been instructed on how to use said firearm prior to delivery. New rules have been instituted for ammunition purchase (California only at this time, but coming for the rest of the states eventually). Every purchaser must be registered in a database with their respective state's Department of Justice. Not registered? Can't buy ammunition. Once registered, every purchase of ammunition is recorded with the State DoJ, complete with the number of rounds purchased. Since my firearm purchases were prior to 2014, I had to do that last registration recently. Those purchases had a 3-week waiting period under the old California law.

Use of Federally controlled substances such as marijuana means one is prohibited from possessing or purchasing firearms or ammunition, whether the states have allowed them to be used or not.

Handed out like candy, eh? Shee-it.

See, all of that makes perfect sense to me.  But Brian seems to think that, even after all of the proper procedures have been gone through, the seller can stop the sale at the last second because he has some sort of a gut feeling about the buyer.

Boru

It isn't a matter of the seller cant stop the sale, it is a matter of far to many sellers assuming a bullshit utopia that "no record" means nothing can go wrong after a legal buy.

If sellers DID give a shit, what they lose in profits they would gain in MORALITY!

Firearms in America today, is not about fighting tyranny, or hunting, but about a fucking greedy industry pitting red and blue states against each other. Firearm sales today are no different then when Nadar told car companies their products sucked. No different than when big tobacco was forced to ditch Joe Camel.

I wish more shop owners would stop a sale..... But they do not.