(October 17, 2019 at 3:17 am)zainab Wrote:

(October 17, 2019 at 1:52 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: Nothing has improved with radical left since when last they had proven to be wish thinkers motivated by resentment and encouraged by cluelessness.   Except they are worse because their cluelessness have not decreased even though the available clues have greatly increased.

Ok

I agree that they failed many times..
but what about THE IDEA ?  

It is scientific .. Scientific socialism ..

It is not utopian

despite all

Utopian communism was scientific, we all know how that worked out. 
From my point of view, ideologys like this rarely succed because they presume a major ideology shift, that happens in decades or maybe centuries. Some politicians or activists think that because you implemented some regulation it will instantly transforme the current culture.

Socialist revolution? Even if it did happen there a major fly in the ointment, humans. The good humans are good and the bad humans find that very handy.

(October 17, 2019 at 12:56 am)zainab Wrote:  In addition, the current global economic crisis may awaken the left, not the center left, but the radical one.

What do you think?

What do I think? I think you're paranoid. Do you watch Fox News much?

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Radical Left...

Imagine this scenario: imagine that you were a bloke that came with Columbus on the first day that he came in America in 1492 and you stayed in America (let's imagine Columbus came to N.A. continent first), and you immediately started working so much that you earned $5000 a day - sounds crazy? Who makes $5000 a day?

And imagine that you are still alive to this day and making that $5000 every day since. You still would not be a billionaire. In fact you would have earned less than Jeff Bezos makes in one week!

So how radical would left have to be to change something like that? Dream on.

Nobody works for a billion dollars.

(October 17, 2019 at 12:56 am)zainab Wrote: I believe that the coming socialist revolution will start from America and spread around the world .. Since America is the summit of capitalism in its globalized form..  


In addition, the current global economic crisis may awaken the left, not the center left, but the radical one.

What do you think?

If there is a recession that mirrors the one in 2008, I think there may very well be a socialist revolution of sorts. I don't think it would be violent, and I don't think it would actually be socialist. I just think there will be a major shift to the left, and Sanders-type Democrats will be elected in droves. There is enough dissatisfaction with the current capitalist status quo among my generation and the one after me to make that happen.

I'm thinking maybe our best hope is to go back to the drawing board, make some adjustments, and try Communism 2.0

(October 17, 2019 at 5:50 am)notimportant1234 Wrote:

(October 17, 2019 at 3:17 am)zainab Wrote: Ok

I agree that they failed many times..
but what about THE IDEA ?  

It is scientific .. Scientific socialism ..

It is not utopian

despite all

Utopian communism was scientific, we all know how that worked out. 
From my point of view, ideologys like this rarely succed because they presume a major ideology shift, that happens in decades or maybe centuries. Some politicians or activists think that because you implemented some regulation it will instantly transforme the current culture.

Communism doesn’t work because its success in the real world depends being able to simultaneously make the same people both stupid and smart.   

you can work hard at one, and even achieve it.   Christianity has succeeded to such a large degree with systematically trying to make people stupid,    While sustained exclusion, discrimination, and ostracism has made the Jews of Europe unusually smart.    But you can not simultaneously make people both smart and stupid, both just the way you like. 

Communism is a just-so fantasy.

Socialism is antiquated and so is unregulated capitalism. We need a social safety net and collective participation in social services. The valid arguments are a matter of degree. Those willing to storm the castle for socialism are like the Area 51 attackers in my book.

(October 20, 2019 at 2:03 pm)CarveTheFive Wrote: I'm thinking maybe our best hope is to go back to the drawing board, make some adjustments, and try Communism 2.0

The version of communism 2.0 that worked least badly is the one in China, where the number of billionaires is second only to the US, the social safety net is even more non-existent than in the US,  Where money gets you even farther socially, and lack of money is even more despised than in the US, and the distribution of wealth overall is more uneven than in the US.

3.0 then

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(October 20, 2019 at 2:17 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Socialism is antiquated and so is unregulated capitalism. We need a social safety net and collective participation in social services. The valid arguments are a matter of degree. Those willing to storm the castle for socialism are like the Area 51 attackers in my book.

What do you think of people who want to storm the castle just because fuck castles?

(October 20, 2019 at 3:15 pm)CarveTheFive Wrote: 3.0 then

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(October 20, 2019 at 2:17 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Socialism is antiquated and so is unregulated capitalism. We need a social safety net and collective participation in social services. The valid arguments are a matter of degree. Those willing to storm the castle for socialism are like the Area 51 attackers in my book.

What do you think of people who want to storm the castle just because fuck castles?

I'm all for it!