(December 3, 2019 at 6:14 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Point is that cops stop the rape when they see it and don't see free will as a valid argument, which can't be said about your god - but yeah, this is too complicated for you to understand.

Typical atheists' arrogant bullsh. Ask actual cops, I bet most of them see farther than you do.

Do cops ignore rapes happening in their plain view where you're from? If not, what's your point?

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(December 2, 2019 at 3:43 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 2, 2019 at 12:20 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: On what do you base the claim that 'most atheists in the West left their faith for reasons that are specific to their former religion'? The reasons I left my former religion (Pentecostal Protestant Christianity) left me still believing in some sort of God, the reasons I stopped believing in God (a couple of decades later) would apply to any religion that posits any kind of supernatural deity, and I find that to be common among atheists in my little part of the USA. Assuming Christianity as an 'initial religion', leaving it makes you 'not-a-Christian', not necessarily an atheist. I have reasons for not believing Christianity AND additional reasons for not believing in God.

Can you elaborate on your reasons for not believing in God?

Can you answer my questions instead of responding by raising another question?

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(December 2, 2019 at 3:43 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 2, 2019 at 12:20 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: For the record, I've read the Koran, cover-to-cover, plus the hadiths. I didn't find it particularly impressive or convincing

I assume you read a translation and not the original Arabic text. It's the latter that is impressive and miraculous judging by the way it came into being. Someone who doesn't understand Arabic simply needs to read the experts' comments on the original text to make an impartial judgment.

Yes, I'm not fluent in Arabic. The only people who seem to think the Koran is convincing in Arabic are Muslims, I do know people IRL who have read the Koran in Arabic and only the Muslims seem to think it's that great. It doesn't matter how poetic and aesthetic it is in the original Arabic, it's what it has to say that matters. I don't need someone to tell me what an English translation of the Koran means, I can read English. I don't have to read the Bible in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek to be objective. If your book loses so much in the translation (miraculous in the original, meh in translation), maybe it should have been written in a more translatable language in the first place.

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(December 2, 2019 at 3:43 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 2, 2019 at 12:20 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: but I think jettisoning the hadiths in their entirety would be a good idea. They're particularly problematic, not part of the Koran, and explicitly not infallible. If you're unwilling to do that, have you considered Shia? They manage to avoid the problem of Mohammed being a pedophile by estimating Aisha's age considerably higher, maybe even 21, before he consummated their marriage. Once upon a time, Aisha being very young was considered a plus by the Sunni, since it made her transmission of the Koran seem more miraculous, or at least prodigious. Now it just seems creepy.

They're not problematic at all.

A minimum age for marriage changed greatly throughout history, it makes absolutely no sense for you or for anyone to judge a marriage that took place 14 centuries ago. It's actually a huge mistake even modern professional historians warn of. (called anachronism, if I can recall correctly)

I don't expect ancient people who didn't know any better to behave according to modern moral understanding. I expect a real prophet of a real Allah to have a more prophetic morality. Child marriage is wrong because of the danger to and abuse of the child. I don't expect an ordinary warlord who started a made-up religion to understand that. Islam is not unique in that regard, all the religions are made up, and most of the founders of them do not hold up well. The Jains may be an exception to that generalization, having figured out slavery is wrong centuries before Jesus and Mohammed, who failed to condemn it.

This guy:
Free Will, isn't that the book about the Tooth Fairy's boyfriend?

Bacon Boy:
No it isn't. Wanna fight?

Normally, it jump at the opportunity. But my card is full. You know, with your mom and all. She is determined to free the genie from my magic lamp.

Ha.

The invasion of other lands was ti give the people freedom to choose their own religion.

And as long as those who chose a different religion from the invader paid their taxes for not being Muslims, they were okay.

We sbould get a Christian apologist on too. The mental gymnastics from them both could be the beginning of a new Olympic sport.

Using the justification given above for the invasions of Europe, the Crusades were totally justified, too.

(December 3, 2019 at 5:09 am)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 3, 2019 at 1:51 am)Deesse23 Wrote: @AtlasS33 : this is a "tu quoque fallacy", textbook style. I hope you learned from the (bad) example of the other nutty misogynist muslim.

Back to the misogynist: Got anything substantial to say or are you still menstruating? Somebody should tell your husband to lock you away until this illness is over, or you may offend other males.

Looks like someone is running out of things to say, and of good jokes too.

Is this the "i am rubber and you are glue" scheme now, or do you have anything substantial to say about your fallacies.  

(December 3, 2019 at 5:09 am)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 3, 2019 at 1:51 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Which "wondeful way"? The way where Al Andalus broke up after a mere 200 years into several Taifas, fighting each other to the death? Where they conspired with christians and fought along their side against fellow muslims? The way where, Almoravids and Almohads took over after figuring out iberian muslims had become weak pussies, and didnt bother to kill and enslave enough christians?

Yeah, was a fucking paradise, just like the levant and middle east ist up to day.

*more whataboutism and marginalisation, the usual routine when somebody never had any arguments to begin with*

So much nonsense in such a short time. Impressive  
But lets leave your whataboutisms aside. Got anything substantial? ...oh i forgot....you ran out of material a few pages back.

(December 3, 2019 at 5:09 am)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 2, 2019 at 11:27 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Yeah, you're what, second best after the Christians? And you keep killing one another. Moral Message Epic Fail.

Fastest growing religion is what matters  

Then why aren't you a Scientologist?

Quote:And all the other major religions do follow messengers, so they count somehow.

I count them as failures too.

Quote:

(December 2, 2019 at 11:27 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: My free will does not justify your deity's incompetence. No worries about me. I wouldn't worship the idiot god that you describe if it walked up to me on the street.

What more do you want from the deity than eternal punishment for those who deserve it? and patience for despicably vain and stupid words like these mumbled in the air without sending a lightning strike down your keyboard ?

Would a rudimentary sense of morality and justice and a skin slightly thicker than an over-ripe tomato be too much to ask? The "god" that you describe mopes worse than a teenager after their first breakup every time one of its creations has the temerity to exercise its free will. And all because your "god" was too witless to find a better way to deliver His Message than entrusting it to a 7th century pedophile.

Hey chloroform, out of curiosity, what version of Islam are you promoting?

The right one, you sillyhead.
I'd have expected you to know that valks.

(December 3, 2019 at 7:29 am)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 3, 2019 at 6:14 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Point is that cops stop the rape when they see it and don't see free will as a valid argument, which can't be said about your god - but yeah, this is too complicated for you to understand.

Typical atheists' arrogant bullsh. Ask actual cops, I bet most of them see farther than you do.

I think you could ask any sane human and get the same reply 'Yeah we'd stop rape". But you do you boo boo.

Its really sad everytime when you have to refer to the famous episode with Tracie Harris, where she had to say to yet another (of seemingly many) free will/rape apologists: "When i see man raping someone i would try and stop him. Thats the difference between me and your god.". Period.

How people like Klor can sacrifice their humanity for an imaginary evil deity was, is and always will be beyond comprehension for me. 

In direct resonse to him accusing me of runnig out of jokes:

Its not funny at all, is sad, really sad. But making fun out of people is often the last way of interaction with someone when you cant reach them anymore with rational thought and they are participating in the disussion with good faith anymore..

He is a misogynist. Thats not funny
He has given up his humanity for a silly, misogynist book, but denying his misogyny to avoid cognititve dissonance.  Thats not funny
He is still parading around his misogyny* He is yet denying his misogyny, probably to avoid cognitive dissonance. Thats not funny.
His best arguments defenses are pathetic attempts of whataboutism and tu quoqe fallacies (which is already a silent admission to his misogyny. He just could have said: "I am for equal rights for women", which he never has, quite the opposite). Thats not funny.


It is all very sad but seemingly (stereo) typical for his particlular flavor of religion which is #1 violent and #2 misogynistic as demonstrated by 2/2 muslim members of this forum openly and demonstrably defending those bad positions.


*by thumping his chest about MALE rights connected to their pysical abilities, somehow *ignoring* female rights, for some not-so-uknown reason.