VOTING INSTRUCTIONS: Either you support war or you do not.

Example: If you support defending your country from invasion, but you oppose your country invading other countries then you would vote "I support it". If you oppose any and all forms of war then you would vote "I oppose it".

If you post on this discussion, I only ask that you vote in the poll (either before or after discussion) as well so that we can see how this strong atheist community views labor unions.

Thankyou

I think it's a bit of a loaded question, but I'll bite anyways. I realize that your philosophic ideology doesn't include the concept of political borders, but the reality of the world we live in does have such borders, and I'm answering accordingly.

I will say that my personal stance on warfare has changed many times in my life, along the spectrum from pacifism to support of war in cases of national security or interest. I served in the US military from 1987 to 1993.

I fully and unequivocally support a nation's right to defend itself from invasion, acts of war, or declared war perpetrated by other nations. That support may or may not include taking the fight to the aggressor nation's soil to cripple their ability to wage war. Had I been alive, I would have supported the Allied involvement in WWII - we had little other choice once war was declared (and initiated) by the Axis powers. Life sometimes sucks like that.

I do not support aggressive action in initiating war on another nation. I'd like to see my country (USA) stop engaging in foreign adventures of conflict (put sarcastically and euphemistically). We aren't liked at all in many corners of the world, and there's legitimate reason for that.

War is inevitable whether or not it is supported. Cultures that do not support war will eventually be dissolved.

As bad as things seem to be sometimes, they could be much worse and I will defend my way of life.

Army Airborne 82nd Division. 1971-1974

I'm of the 'Shoot first. Ask questions later.' mindset.

(October 18, 2011 at 9:37 pm)I_Blaspheme Wrote: I think it's a bit of a loaded question, but I'll bite anyways. I realize that your philosophic ideology doesn't include the concept of political borders, but the reality of the world we live in does have such borders, and I'm answering accordingly.

I appreciate that you have taken my political/philosophical views into consideration.

My motto is "Have tools, will travel", and I dont give a fuck about political borders in the sense that they only exist in peoples minds.

With that said, I do put HEAVY weight on the fact that others disagree with me in that sphere.

Quote:I will say that my personal stance on warfare has changed many times in my life, along the spectrum from pacifism to support of war in cases of national security or interest. I served in the US military from 1987 to 1993.

I would assume that most peoples views on war changes with the times. Mine have done the same. It is one reason why I havent voted yet.

Yes, I know... It is my own Poll, yet I havent voted.

As far as millitary work... I have done TONS of millitary work with my tools. Like I said before, I have them, and they take me places.

Quote:I fully and unequivocally support a nation's right to defend itself from invasion, acts of war, or declared war perpetrated by other nations. That support may or may not include taking the fight to the aggressor nation's soil to cripple their ability to wage war. Had I been alive, I would have supported the Allied involvement in WWII - we had little other choice once war was declared (and initiated) by the Axis powers. Life sometimes sucks like that.

Hmmm... The more I think of it, the more I think "Who profited the most from so much bloodshed?". Its all about groups of Corporations making mad money selling bullets to both sides of the war.

But of course... you already know this much.

Quote:I do not support aggressive action in initiating war on another nation. I'd like to see my country (USA) stop engaging in foreign adventures of conflict (put sarcastically and euphemistically). We aren't liked at all in many corners of the world, and there's legitimate reason for that.

Of course you dont... and they dont expect you too. Thats what the occasional "terrorist attack" is about.

$$$

(October 18, 2011 at 10:52 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: My motto is "Have tools, will travel", and I dont give a fuck about political borders in the sense that they only exist in peoples minds.

Well, in mind and in treaties and other agreements between political entities. In the case of nations, established and enforced at times via warfare and threats thereof, coincidentally. I think we understand each other though.

Quote:Hmmm... The more I think of it, the more I think "Who profited the most from so much bloodshed?". Its all about groups of Corporations making mad money selling bullets to both sides of the war.

I'd say that the wealthy and industry profit. Period. I would not limit that phenomenon to warfare. It's largely true across the board. War is not special in this regard. Human misery is an opportunity business, no doubt.

The morality of such enterprise is left as an exercise for the reader.

Quote:Of course you dont... and they dont expect you too. Thats what the occasional "terrorist attack" is about.

My post was referring to acts between nations. Things get more murky to me when dealing with non-state entities. False flag operations are another kettle of fish as well.

Supporter of wars to sort out problems. I supported Iraq war from the start, although I thought oil and regime change was a good enough reason. I'd support a war with Iran when the world gets it's finances together. Whether anyone likes it or not, oil is so important to western lives, that I am of the opinion that you should do anything to get it(almost). Plus the Ayatollah is a bad mutha who needs to get got.

Surprisingly in a lefty.

Quote:and I dont give a fuck about political borders in the sense that they only exist in peoples minds.

Put a bible in your knapsack and cross into Saudi Arabia and you'll find out just how wrong you are.

(October 19, 2011 at 1:45 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:and I dont give a fuck about political borders in the sense that they only exist in peoples minds.

Put a bible in your knapsack and cross into Saudi Arabia and you'll find out just how wrong you are.

and then I said

reverendjeremiah Wrote:With that said, I do put HEAVY weight on the fact that others disagree with me in that sphere.

So yes.. I agree...I would do no such thing even if I WAS a fundy.

(October 18, 2011 at 9:39 pm)IATIA Wrote: War is inevitable whether or not it is supported. Cultures that do not support war will eventually be dissolved.

As bad as things seem to be sometimes, they could be much worse and I will defend my way of life.

Army Airborne 82nd Division. 1971-1974

And yet Switzerland has managed to survive all these years.