(December 26, 2019 at 7:08 pm)Stoneheart Wrote:

(December 23, 2019 at 7:07 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: The attitude of a Muslim towards non-belief and to non-believers has been a source of constant criticism of the Quran; claimed by many to be "extremist and non-tolerant" towards non-belief.

But the contents of the Quran are the exact opposite. Reading the verses in the Quran regarding how to treat non-belief and non-believers can tell us a lot:

This is a reason for unbelief:

What kept men back from belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this: they said, "Has Allah sent a man like us to be His Messenger?" 17:94.


And it seems Muslims that will only believe in the Quran are also unbelievers according to the Quran:


　
Then sent We our messengers in succession: every time there came to a people their messenger, they accused him of falsehood: so We made them follow each other in punishment: We made them as a tale that is told: So away with a people that will not believe! 23:44

There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe. 12:111

　

Before thee We sent messengers to many nations, and We afflicted the nations with suffering and adversity, that they might learn humility. 6:42

O mankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other not that ye may despise each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is he who is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted with all things. 49:13

But they said: "Our Lord! Place longer distances between our journey-stages": but they wronged themselves therein. At length We made them as a tale that is told, and We dispersed them all in scattered fragments. Verily in this are Signs for every soul that is patiently constant and grateful. 34:19
　

Those who deny Allah and His messengers, and those who wish to separate Allah from His messengers, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": And those who wish to take a course midway,- 4:150

They are in truth equally unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment. 4:151

The messenger -Mohammed peace be upon him- is dead. How do you suggest that I ask him for an interpretation or advice?
Then what is Quran:49:13 and 4:151 has to do with this topic?

Again; in bold: the prophet is dead.

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(December 26, 2019 at 4:56 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(December 26, 2019 at 4:24 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The Quran is all about its meaning; it's not a book of magic or spells; with its own admission:


The Quran is not a magic book capable of magic tricks.
I should note though that the Quran is meant for all people, it doesn't need the disgusting religious institutions of today to hold control over it as Klorophyll/MK above keeps repeating. It can be translated and understood without the help of any institution.

I’m being tongue in cheek, Atlas. But, the book certainly contains claims of magic that the three of you have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Magic is nothing more but a trick; even the Quran said it. Slight-of-a hand and a couple of games with strings and staffs are snake-oil folklore tricks that the Quran actually fought.

(December 28, 2019 at 12:17 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: The messenger -Mohammed peace be upon him- is dead. How do you suggest that I ask him for an interpretation or advice?
Then what is Quran:49:13 and 4:151 has to do with this topic?

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You can still listen to him. There is more than one messenger.
I showed you the Quran says that the message is scattered with messengers sent to many nations. 49:13 could be a reason why.
This topic is about the unbelievers according to the Quran. I will repeat 4:150 and 4:151 for you.

Those who deny Allah and His messengerS, and those who wish to separate Allah from His messengerS, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": And those who wish to take a course midway,- 4:150

They are in truth equally unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment. 4:151

　
Listen carefully Atlas.

Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Quran for just foolish nonsense." 25:30

The other messengers will also speak nonsense.

　

Atlas I have a question for you. Do you believe in Giants?

If you don't believe can you explain why you don't, or if you do believe can you explain why you do? I will give you a couple of examples from someone who doesnt believe in giants and from someone who does.

　

This is a reason why someone doesn't believe in giants:

"The above outlined issues are probably only the tip of the iceberg of problems that such a gigantic size would imply for a human being. Unless Muslims can present better arguments based on sound scientific reasoning, the conclusion can only be that Muhammad's claim regarding the size of Adam belongs to the realm of myths and fairy tales.

Abdallah claimed that science confirmed that Muhammad was right about Adam being 90 feet tall. This claim has certainly failed. Muslims could at most appeal to a miracle that God may have done for Adam so that somehow it worked for him despite all the scientific reasons speaking against it.

This appeal to a singular miracle fails, however, because of the second of the above highlighted aspects of Muhammad's teaching regarding the size of Adam. Let us repeat Muhammad's claim:

Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. ... People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation. (Sahih al-Bukhari, 4.543)

Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created Adam in His own image with His length of sixty cubits, ... then the people who followed him continued to diminish in size up to this day. (Sahih Muslim, No. 6809)

Even if Muslims would want to question and reject the above arguments against Adam having been 90 feet tall because it was a singular miraculous event, or claim that it may have been possible in some unknown way since we do not know all the necessary parameters to make a final scientific judgment, Muhammad's second claim states that the height of human beings has been decreasing continuously. This means there must have been hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of gigantic people which lived and died on this earth. Although one cannot expect to find the skeleton of Adam (or any specific person of history), archaeology can tell us whether human beings in general have changed in size over time. Note carefully that Muhammad's claim does not merely say that there existed some exceptional people that happened to be very tall — the remains of which have sadly never been found. Muhammad's claim clearly means human beings in general or on average have continuously decreased since the time of Adam up to his own time.

If this were true, one would expect to find thousands of remains of gigantic people. These remains would first of all be skeletons, but also include tools they used, weapons, art work, remains of buildings, etc. And these findings should show a definite difference in size of people living 10,000 BC, 3,000 BC, and 500 AD. Since there were not only a few, but many such people, archaeologists should have no problem to present to us plenty of remains of people which were 60 feet, 50 feet, 40 feet, 30 feet and 20 feet tall. Where are they? Are there any such findings at all? Are they in decreasing sequence when ordered according to their age? I am not aware of ANY archaeological support for Muhammad's teaching about the size of human beings over history. To give a very generous bracket, humans have generally remained within the range of 3 to 10 feet. There is, to my knowledge, no evidence that their average was above 10 feet at any time of history.

Conclusion: Muhammad was wrong on both counts."

https://www.answering-islam.org/Response...t-adam.htm

　

　
And this is a reason from someone who does believe in giants:

But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7

Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? Matthew 6:27

Allah's Apostle said, "Two persons came to me at night in dream and took me along with them. We passed by a tall man who was so tall that I was not able to see his head and that person was Abraham." Book 55 Hadith 573.


That is why evidence of giant skeleton remains has not been found.



So tell me. Do you believe in giants? Why?

Do you think a mans head could actually reach the heavens while his feet are on the Earth?

(December 28, 2019 at 10:10 pm)Stoneheart Wrote:

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You can still listen to him.

Not at all, he died 1400 years ago.

Quote:There is more than one messenger.

Also not at all.

(December 28, 2019 at 12:17 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(December 26, 2019 at 7:08 pm)Stoneheart Wrote: This is a reason for unbelief:

What kept men back from belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this: they said, "Has Allah sent a man like us to be His Messenger?" 17:94.


And it seems Muslims that will only believe in the Quran are also unbelievers according to the Quran:


　
Then sent We our messengers in succession: every time there came to a people their messenger, they accused him of falsehood: so We made them follow each other in punishment: We made them as a tale that is told: So away with a people that will not believe! 23:44

There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe. 12:111

　

Before thee We sent messengers to many nations, and We afflicted the nations with suffering and adversity, that they might learn humility. 6:42

O mankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other not that ye may despise each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is he who is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted with all things. 49:13

But they said: "Our Lord! Place longer distances between our journey-stages": but they wronged themselves therein. At length We made them as a tale that is told, and We dispersed them all in scattered fragments. Verily in this are Signs for every soul that is patiently constant and grateful. 34:19
　

Those who deny Allah and His messengers, and those who wish to separate Allah from His messengers, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": And those who wish to take a course midway,- 4:150

They are in truth equally unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment. 4:151

The messenger -Mohammed peace be upon him- is dead. How do you suggest that I ask him for an interpretation or advice?
Then what is Quran:49:13 and 4:151 has to do with this topic?

Again; in bold: the prophet is dead.

---

(December 26, 2019 at 4:56 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I’m being tongue in cheek, Atlas. But, the book certainly contains claims of magic that the three of you have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Magic is nothing more but a trick; even the Quran said it. Slight-of-a hand and a couple of games with strings and staffs are snake-oil folklore tricks that the Quran actually fought.

So islam is just sleight of hand with strings and snakes and snake oil sales pitches that the magic book PROMOTED. INTENTIONALLY.

See, this christmas day just past, everyone, post prandial, is expected to perform a "party piece". Most sing or such, I perform magic. I can guarantee you that some present walked away convinced that I actually read their minds. They are, of course, flat wrong. But you are among that small cadre of the gullible.

(December 29, 2019 at 10:50 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(December 28, 2019 at 12:17 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: The messenger -Mohammed peace be upon him- is dead. How do you suggest that I ask him for an interpretation or advice?
Then what is Quran:49:13 and 4:151 has to do with this topic?

Again; in bold: the prophet is dead.

---

Magic is nothing more but a trick; even the Quran said it. Slight-of-a hand and a couple of games with strings and staffs are snake-oil folklore tricks that the Quran actually fought.

So islam is just sleight of hand with strings and snakes and snake oil sales pitches that the magic book PROMOTED. INTENTIONALLY.

See, this christmas day just past, everyone, post prandial, is expected to perform a "party piece". Most sing or such, I perform magic. I can guarantee you that some present walked away convinced that I actually read their minds. They are, of course, flat wrong. But you are among that small cadre of the gullible.

Huh?

Must be boredom, there's no other reason...