At least in western cultures. When standard dress is jeans and a tee shirt, what you’re actually doing is drawing more attention to yourself. Most people will let their eyes slide right past a woman in jeans, a tee shirt and a ponytail. Besides that is it not an insult to your own god to claim that he has made your own natural body inappropriate?

The original purpose of what has now become traditional dress was modesty, and arguably justified as a way to protect women from rape in a barbaric time and region, but now it's purpose is tradition and a way to announce that you're a Muslim.

(December 10, 2019 at 10:18 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: The original purpose of what has now become traditional dress was modesty, and arguably justified as a way to protect women from rape in a barbaric time and region, but now it's purpose is tradition and a way to announce that you're a Muslim.

I know that I’m just saying that for the modern Muslim women who wear it and say they’re being modest, they’re lying.

I agree, and it's unfortunate that it's the women who have to wear the 'I am a Muslim' sign.

(December 10, 2019 at 9:56 am)BrokenQuill92 Wrote: At least in western cultures. When standard dress is jeans and a tee shirt, what you’re actually doing is drawing more attention to yourself. Most people will let their eyes slide right past a woman in jeans, a tee shirt and a ponytail. Besides that is it not an insult to your own god to claim that he has made your own natural body inappropriate?

I agree with you. Its not a sin to show off your body but it is a sin to deliberately entice others to sin by looking at you. Making people fall in lust over you would be sin. Rightly so. I think we should have laws that make sense not like sharia law which makes no sense whatsoever.

The Hijab originates from this Quranic verse:

Quote:https://quran.com/24/31?translations=
Dr. Ghali

(31) And say to the female believers to cast down their be holdings, and preserve their private parts, and not display their adornment except such as is outward, and let them fix (Literally: strike) closely their veils over their bosoms, and not display their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husbands' fathers, or their sons, or their husbands' sons, or their brothers, or their brothers's sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or what their right hands possess, or (male) followers, men without desire (Literally: without being endowed with "sexual" desire) or young children who have not yet attained knowledge of women's privacies, and they should not strike their legs (i.e., stamp their feet) so that whatever adornment they hide may be known. And repent to Allah altogether, (O) you believers, that possibly you would prosper.

Covering the chest, legs, probably the hair too and not acting in ways that trigger the sexual reaction in men is what the verse tell believing women to do in my opinion.

Ironically; the Quran is full of other sentences that cover the prevention of blood-shedding, robbery, respecting parents..., but gullible Sunnies/Shiites focus on this one verse to abuse women via it by twisting its meaning according to their will.

About modesty, what does this verse worth if the woman covered all her body, but acted like a slut and had sex on the street?

Modesty starts in the heart. I can name you non-believing atheist women who are more modest than a Muslim in full-Hijab wearing it only to escape the abuse of her family.

(December 10, 2019 at 10:18 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: The original purpose of what has now become traditional dress was modesty, and arguably justified as a way to protect women from rape in a barbaric time and region, but now it's purpose is tradition and a way to announce that you're a Muslim.

Disagree. Compulsory garb is exclusively for the sole purpose of subjugation of women. There is no getting around it. And I state that as a man.

I don't like it. I really don't like it.

Give me a feisty equal any day, not a letterbox.

I have two daughters ( or at least born as daughters) and nothing gives me greater joy that to have them tell me "Dad you are wrong" followed by a logical demolition of whatever the topic du jour might be.

I may have made many errors or mis-steps or whatever, but at the very least I can rest assured that I have provided my children with the tools of critical thinking.

And the upshot of that is equality. One lives and dies according to the facts, not some mad superstition about the "roles" of the genders.

So what is it that stands in opposition to gender equality? Well religion stands in opposition to gender equality. All of religion.

Sure, there are a few exceptions, but those are not many.

(January 20, 2020 at 5:50 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(December 10, 2019 at 10:18 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: The original purpose of what has now become traditional dress was modesty, and arguably justified as a way to protect women from rape in a barbaric time and region, but now it's purpose is tradition and a way to announce that you're a Muslim.

Disagree. Compulsory garb is exclusively for the sole purpose of subjugation of women. There is no getting around it. And I state that as a man.

I don't like it. I really don't like it.

Give me a feisty equal any day, not a letterbox.

I have two daughters ( or at least born as daughters) and nothing gives me greater joy that to have them tell me "Dad you are wrong" followed by a logical demolition of whatever the topic du jour might be.

I may have made many errors or mis-steps or whatever, but at the very least I can rest assured that I have provided my children with the tools of critical thinking.

And the upshot of that is equality. One lives and dies according to the facts, not some mad superstition about the "roles" of the genders.

So what is it that stands in opposition to gender equality? Well religion stands in opposition to gender equality. All of religion.

Sure, there are a few exceptions, but those are not many.

Loving your daughters so much should make you respect their right to think and decide how to treat their bodies, respecting the stereotype means that you don't really "respect your daughters' right to choose" but respect the "stereotype".

In other words I'm saying that there is no difference between your opinion, and the opinion of any extremist Muslim. You just happen to be born in different "stereotypes".

(December 10, 2019 at 9:56 am)BrokenQuill92 Wrote: At least in western cultures. When standard dress is jeans and a tee shirt, what you’re actually doing is drawing more attention to yourself. Most people will let their eyes slide right past a woman in jeans, a tee shirt and a ponytail. Besides that is it not an insult to your own god to claim that he has made your own natural body inappropriate?

Wear what you like, I couldn't care less, but when conformity equals modesty you have a problem with your culture.

The Hijab is something I see a lot where I live - wouldn't think it would ya? What with me being in the Dallas area. But they are an everyday site around where I live. So are turbans - or whatever the correct nomenclature is for those headwraps I see some men wearing. Doesn't matter to me any more than a yarmulke. I am as likely to see someone wearing one of those three things as I am to see someone in pricey cowboy boots and a ten gallon hat.

My only thought is that the Hijab is that it must be hot when it's 100+ here.

Some of them are sort of pretty. I am not scoping out people to see if they are wearing a cross so that I can be all judgey about it. The Hijab bothers me not one bit.