(February 1, 2020 at 3:10 pm)Mr Greene Wrote:

(January 30, 2020 at 2:22 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: What ills of socialism?

Nationalized industries; state run monopolies lacking motivations such as quality control or efficiency. eg. British Leyland
Numerous other effects from the pressure on workers to fulfill minimum quotas and nothing more to the secret police seen across the Warsaw Pact.

None of these however are likely to affect the US where the Democrats are still significantly to the right of right wing parties in Europe.

In other words you don't get what socialism is 

1.No there is nothing in Socialism  that says something must be nationalized 

2. Privatization in Britain has been a disaster .Not quality or efficient in the slightest .

3.No there is nothing in Socialism  that says anything quotas or secret police

Nevertheless socialists ubiquitously call for nationalization. 
You claim that privatization has been a "disaster", yet it's like night & day compared to the nationalized **** we had to put up with before that.
It was a stipulation of the Labour party to nationalize industry until very recently.
There isn't one industry or service that performed better under nationalization and most were crippled by lack of quality and industrial action.
In the Warsaw Pact the Soviets found the only way to get anything out of their nationalized industries was to impose quotas, though these would only be fulfilled at minimum levels and workers who produced above the quota were beaten by their 'colleagues'.
The various secret police forces of the WP are too universal to dismiss as anomalies, they are part and parcel of the system. Claiming items that don't fit due to an overoptimistic view of human behaviour aren't a direct result of the ideology is disingenuous.

(February 1, 2020 at 7:28 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: Nevertheless socialists ubiquitously call for nationalization. 
You claim that privatization has been a "disaster", yet it's like night & day compared to the nationalized **** we had to put up with before that.
It was a stipulation of the Labour party to nationalize industry until very recently.
There isn't one industry or service that performed better under nationalization and most were crippled by lack of quality and industrial action.
In the Warsaw Pact the Soviets found the only way to get anything out of their nationalized industries was to impose quotas, though these would only be fulfilled at minimum levels and workers who produced above the quota were beaten by their 'colleagues'.
The various secret police forces of the WP are too universal to dismiss as anomalies, they are part and parcel of the system. Claiming items that don't fit due to an overoptimistic view of human behaviour aren't a direct result of the ideology is disingenuous.

1. Some brands do but that's not a core principle of socialism 

2. Nope Nationalization was in some cases was better sorry your simply won on this point

3.Bringing up Soviet Tankism as a condemnation of Socialism is absurd  

4.Nope they were Universal in an Authoritarian states nothing to do with socialism let alone   "part and parcel of the system"

5. Claiming items that fit your attacks on socialism then trying to use them as  mean to villainize a political philosophy  you don't like is disingenuous

6. It wasn't a direct result of the ideology and that's simply a fact

To be fair, British Leyland were in pretty dire straits even before nationalization.

Boru

(February 1, 2020 at 7:39 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(February 1, 2020 at 7:28 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: Nevertheless socialists ubiquitously call for nationalization. 
You claim that privatization has been a "disaster", yet it's like night & day compared to the nationalized **** we had to put up with before that.
It was a stipulation of the Labour party to nationalize industry until very recently.
There isn't one industry or service that performed better under nationalization and most were crippled by lack of quality and industrial action.
In the Warsaw Pact the Soviets found the only way to get anything out of their nationalized industries was to impose quotas, though these would only be fulfilled at minimum levels and workers who produced above the quota were beaten by their 'colleagues'.
The various secret police forces of the WP are too universal to dismiss as anomalies, they are part and parcel of the system. Claiming items that don't fit due to an overoptimistic view of human behaviour aren't a direct result of the ideology is disingenuous.

1. Some brands do bu that's not a core principle of socialism 

2. Nope Nationalization was in some cases was better sorry your simply won on this point

3.Bringing up Soviet Tankism as a condemnation of Socialism is absurd  

4.Nope they were Universal in an Authoritarian states nothing to do with socialism let alone   "part and parcel of the system"

5. Claiming items that fit your attacks on socialism then trying to use them as  mean to villainize a political philosophy  you don't like is disingenuous

6. It wasn't a direct result of the ideology and that's simply a fact

The only nationalized 'industry' in Britain worth anything is the NHS the rest was an utter disaster, anyone who had to endure travel by British Rail knew that.

(February 1, 2020 at 7:44 pm)Mr Greene Wrote:

(February 1, 2020 at 7:39 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: 1. Some brands do bu that's not a core principle of socialism 

2. Nope Nationalization was in some cases was better sorry your simply won on this point

3.Bringing up Soviet Tankism as a condemnation of Socialism is absurd  

4.Nope they were Universal in an Authoritarian states nothing to do with socialism let alone   "part and parcel of the system"

5. Claiming items that fit your attacks on socialism then trying to use them as  mean to villainize a political philosophy  you don't like is disingenuous

6. It wasn't a direct result of the ideology and that's simply a fact

The only nationalized 'industry' in Britain worth anything is the NHS the rest was an utter disaster, anyone who had to endure travel by British Rail knew that.

1. Nope across the threshold nationalized 'industry was good and British rail is now is garbage it was way better nationalized

Does that come with an English translation?

British Rail was better when it was nationalized? ROFL!
Tell me the next time the door handle comes off the coach... then the staff says "Oh... not my department..."

(February 1, 2020 at 7:52 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: Does that come with an English translation?

British Rail was better when it was nationalized? ROFL!
Tell me the next time the door handle comes off the coach...

British Rail was better now that it's Privatized ? ROFL!
It was tell me that next time door handle comes off the coach...then the staff says "Oh... not my department..."
That is if you manage to actually find a train

Generally they're not too bad these days, bit pricey but the service is vastly improved.

(February 1, 2020 at 8:03 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: Generally they're not too bad these days, bit pricey but the service is vastly improved.

Nope Pricey .Slow, Cramped ,Terrible service ,Bad Trains ,Failing infrastructure, vastly worse then before