Quote:There are a lot of similar things. Addictions, I have read somewhere, may have a genetic foundation. God could change the gene. No interference with free will. You could come up with plenty of other examples but I think you get the drift.

If God could genetically alter humans to prevent or cure addiction, and free will is a thing, why wouldn't God have created people in such a way that, of their own free will, they would never commit an evil act?

Boru

I think it's generally good to view most brain injuries and diseases, even those stemming from genetic or behaviors such as drug use, as either hijacking, exploiting, or limiting what the brain does naturally. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't know any disorder that adds a behavior that isn't already possible in a healthy brain. Drugs and diseases are using the same colors to make a different painting.

Everything that's good can be used for evil. Your immune system fights off pathogens, but if it no longer recognizes your native cells you get an autoimmune disorder. The same hands that can be used for building houses can be used for breaking necks. Evil can always be possible because things that are designed for good can always be misplaced.

Perhaps the only way to design an organism incapable of evil is to create an organism that has no autonomy, no behaviors, and no functions.

Fair enough, let's restrict it to moral (as opposed to natural) evil.

I've just discovered where my neighbour keeps tens of thousands of dollars in her house.  She routinely leaves the door unlocked, and is away for a large part of the day.  I have every opportunity to walk into her home and take the money.  I decline to do so.  Does this make me an automaton?

Boru

(February 8, 2020 at 10:49 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Fair enough, let's restrict it to moral (as opposed to natural) evil.

I've just discovered where my neighbour keeps tens of thousands of dollars in her house.  She routinely leaves the door unlocked, and is away for a large part of the day.  I have every opportunity to walk into her home and take the money.  I decline to do so.  Does this make me an automaton?

Boru

The bartender charges me for 5 beers, when I had 10. Even at that stage I corrected him.

(February 8, 2020 at 10:49 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I've just discovered where my neighbour keeps tens of thousands of dollars in her house.  She routinely leaves the door unlocked, and is away for a large part of the day.  I have every opportunity to walk into her home and take the money.  I decline to do so.  Does this make me an automaton?

Boru

Based on the description it doesn't sound like you are. I say this because most psychologists are more comfortable speaking about free won't rather than free will. Declining to do something sounds similar to the conscious experience of impulse control most people associate with free will (see Filvenich, et al., 2012).

Reference: Filvenich, E., Kuhn, S., and Haggard P. (2012) Intentional inhibition in human action: The power of 'no.' Neuroscience and Behavioral Reviews, 36, p. 1107-118.

(February 8, 2020 at 11:20 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:

(February 8, 2020 at 10:49 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I've just discovered where my neighbour keeps tens of thousands of dollars in her house.  She routinely leaves the door unlocked, and is away for a large part of the day.  I have every opportunity to walk into her home and take the money.  I decline to do so.  Does this make me an automaton?

Boru

Based on the description it doesn't sound like you are. I say this because most psychologists are more comfortable speaking about free won't rather that free will. Declining to do something sounds similar to the conscious experience of impulse control most people associate with free will (see Filvenich, et al., 2012).

Reference: Filvenich, E., Kuhn, S., and Haggard P. (2012) Intentional inhibition in human action: The power of 'no.' Neuroscience and Behavioral Reviews, 36, p. 1107-118.

Agreed. So what would be the objection to God having created every human being to freely act or not act in a manner pleasing to God? You would always be free to do x but you would always freely choose to do not-x, and vice versa. All possibility of sin and the attendant punishment would be removed without the abrogation of free will.

Boru

Libet was a fool for his free won't hypothesis.

(February 8, 2020 at 11:34 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Agreed. So what would be the objection to God having created every human being to freely act or not act in a manner pleasing to God? You would always be free to do x but you would always freely choose to do not-x, and vice versa. All possibility of sin and the attendant punishment would be removed without the abrogation of free will.

Boru

If I understood correctly, you're asking why does sin get punished in the first place, why not just allow it?

(February 8, 2020 at 11:56 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:

(February 8, 2020 at 11:34 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Agreed. So what would be the objection to God having created every human being to freely act or not act in a manner pleasing to God? You would always be free to do x but you would always freely choose to do not-x, and vice versa. All possibility of sin and the attendant punishment would be removed without the abrogation of free will.

Boru

If I understood correctly, you're asking why does sin get punished in the first place, why not just allow it?

No, I'm asking why God doesn't eliminate sin when it is within his power to do so.

Boru

(February 8, 2020 at 11:59 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: No, I'm asking why God doesn't eliminate sin when it is within his power to do so.

Boru

I think the elimination of sin is the whole point of the Bible. Perhaps with the added perk/complication that he wants to save mankind from a sinking ship too, not just toss them all out the window. The story in scripture starts with the fall of mankind (sin enters), the plan of salvation (Jesus atoning for sin), and judgment (getting rid of sin).

Edit: Oops I think I understand what you mean now. Create people who can sin but choose not to? I don't know, from the surface it seems contradictory. Either you can or you can't. I'm not sure how to answer that.