(February 13, 2020 at 2:44 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I think you are an American so Im going to go for a bit of both.

I dont know....he was correctly using the "ä" Umlaut.

Ah more of Jacks fallacies and follies

(February 13, 2020 at 1:40 pm)Yukon_Jack Wrote: Well what I’m saying is that mutations ARE like magic. As Luck and magic would have it , look what they accomplished, among everything from owls, eyes. to blood clotting to the insect doppelgänger of a leaf and many other examples of traits that seem too good to be true.
And.  What did your parents say about things that are usually too good to be true?
If I was stuck in the middle of the desert dying of thirst what would the chances be that a case of spring water would be behind the next rock ?

OK, as an example: Giraffes. [And by proxy it's food source also]

A very long time ago, Giraffes had short/"regular size" necks. Via random mutation, the food source of the giraffes grew taller, so avoid being eaten. This then increases the amount of time the organism is alive so it can reproduce more, passing on it's genetic material that now says "grew this tall to avoid predators". 

In comparison, some of the proto-giraffes could no longer reach the food, so they died. 1 or more would have a complete random mutation that provides them with a slightly longer neck. [Bearing in mind that mutation as a whole is not the answer itself: some would be born with short necks, some with shorter legs, some with longer legs etc]. This of course gave them the chance to eat, live longer an reproduce - passing on this new mutation. 

As you can gather, this happened slowly over millions of years, and here we are today. Giraffes that are really tall [leg wise] AND that have long necks, so they can still eat their food. The plant itself went from a small-ish plant, to a tree to compete with it's "predator" but only really by chance - because all the previous version of it would have died off, as it would be easier to eat.

That's roughly the premise here - mutation occours, but it may or may not be beneficial ot the species itself. Those with bad mutations or mutations that result in unhelpful things die off, thus not passing on that treat genetically, but those that live longer due to positive changes CAN pass on that genetic mutation. And the cycle goes on and on, and constantly does to this day - it's only the changes are so minute and take so long, it's hard to "see". 

On the plus side, you CAN see evolution in action with various insects, as they reproduce faster - fruit flies I believe are the prime candidate during testing.

(February 14, 2020 at 6:26 am)OakTree500 Wrote:

(February 13, 2020 at 1:40 pm)Yukon_Jack Wrote: Well what I’m saying is that mutations ARE like magic. As Luck and magic would have it , look what they accomplished, among everything from owls, eyes. to blood clotting to the insect doppelgänger of a leaf and many other examples of traits that seem too good to be true.
And.  What did your parents say about things that are usually too good to be true?
If I was stuck in the middle of the desert dying of thirst what would the chances be that a case of spring water would be behind the next rock ?

OK, as an example: Giraffes. [And by proxy it's food source also]

A very long time ago, Giraffes had short/"regular size" necks. Via random mutation, the food source of the giraffes grew taller, so avoid being eaten. This then increases the amount of time the organism is alive so it can reproduce more, passing on it's genetic material that now says "grew this tall to avoid predators". 

In comparison, some of the proto-giraffes could no longer reach the food, so they died. 1 or more would have a complete random mutation that provides them with a slightly longer neck. [Bearing in mind that mutation as a whole is not the answer itself: some would be born with short necks, some with shorter legs, some with longer legs etc]. This of course gave them the chance to eat, live longer an reproduce - passing on this new mutation. 

As you can gather, this happened slowly over millions of years, and here we are today. Giraffes that are really tall [leg wise] AND that have long necks, so they can still eat their food. The plant itself went from a small-ish plant, to a tree to compete with it's "predator" but only really by chance - because all the previous version of it would have died off, as it would be easier to eat.

That's roughly the premise here - mutation occours, but it may or may not be beneficial ot the species itself. Those with bad mutations or mutations that result in unhelpful things die off, thus not passing on that treat genetically, but those that live longer due to positive changes CAN pass on that genetic mutation. And the cycle goes on and on, and constantly does to this day - it's only the changes are so minute and take so long, it's hard to "see". 

On the plus side, you CAN see evolution in action with various insects, as they reproduce faster - fruit flies I believe are the prime candidate during testing.

I have seen a thread reaching 10000 posts here in AF to educate a simpleton. I suppose ignorance is bait to atheists.

Even if God reveals himself and offers eternal life in heaven for righteous life, many atheists still might choose peace of non existence. So it isn't about evidence as much as it is about wish to fight for grand and perfect life or just the rejection of such things and wish for a painless peace.

(February 14, 2020 at 6:26 am)OakTree500 Wrote: A very long time ago, Giraffes had short/"regular size" necks.

Giraffes have the same number of vertebrae in their necks as pygmy shrews, seven. Same number we have. Adaptive mutations allowed them to have a food source other browsers couldn't access.

(February 14, 2020 at 8:01 am)LastPoet Wrote: I have seen a thread reaching 10000 posts here in AF to educate a simpleton. I suppose ignorance is bait to atheists.

Seems to be that way - I think the majority of us, no matter how lacking in knowledge the opponent might be, really just want to help them.......even if it's futile on our part 

(February 14, 2020 at 9:19 am)OakTree500 Wrote:

(February 14, 2020 at 8:01 am)LastPoet Wrote: I have seen a thread reaching 10000 posts here in AF to educate a simpleton. I suppose ignorance is bait to atheists.

Seems to be that way - I think the majority of us, no matter how lacking in knowledge the opponent might be, really just want to help them.......even if it's futile on our part 

It is true. There is nothing we can do. But I keep thinking there might be others reading forums that can be willing to learn. So it might not be futile after all.

(February 13, 2020 at 1:40 pm)Yukon_Jack Wrote: Well what I’m saying is that mutations ARE like magic. As Luck and magic would have it , look what they accomplished, among everything from owls, eyes. to blood clotting to the insect doppelgänger of a leaf and many other examples of traits that seem too good to be true.
And.  What did your parents say about things that are usually too good to be true?
If I was stuck in the middle of the desert dying of thirst what would the chances be that a case of spring water would be behind the next rock?

Evolution is not too good to be true. 99% of all the species that ever existed are extinct, essentially because they did not find that spring behind the next rock when their reproductive fitness environment changed.

If there were 100 million people in that desert, do you see how it's a whole different game to bet that ONE of them will find spring water behind the next rock? And that that is the one that will survive?

If a million butterflies have regular spots and one butterfly has slightly larger spots that give it a better chance of surviving to reproduce, that's great for that butterfly, but the rest are doomed (in the particular case of the Owl Butterfly species) to have their 'small spot genes' gradually out-competed by and replaced by that one lucky butterfly's 'slightly larger spot genes'.

Replication errors are hardly magical. There's no typo fairy, either.