(March 24, 2016 at 6:58 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...fluid.html

Allah has told us about this already, Allah (God) resides above all in the 7th heaven, with "his throne being atop of water"..As strange as it may sound, that's how he,God, phrased this 1400 years ago. He revealed this fact to Mohaamed -Peace be Upon Him-, and Mohammed -who couldn't even read or right- reported it to the illiterate Arabs of the Middle Ages.

(Sura 11 Verse 7 )   And it is He who created the heavens and the earth in six days - and His Throne had been upon water - that He might test you as to which of you is best in deed. But if you say, "Indeed, you are resurrected after death," those who disbelieve will surely say, "This is not but obvious magic."

You will rise after you die..God exists. It can't be; a nomad in the desert before 1400 years ago wouldn't have ever thought about such thing.
He is testing us. And this life is nothing but a test..no wonder space/time wasn't so nice to our bodies; we are drowning..

Space/time is crushing us.  

God exists. 

We are being tested.

No, sorry, Atlas, "superfluid" is not the same as water. Plus, we're still not certain what the exact structure of the universe is AFAIK. This is just a hypothesis at this point.

(April 29, 2016 at 3:07 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(April 28, 2016 at 4:53 pm)Stimbo Wrote: So basically, tell humans to stop being human? That's reasonable.

There is "better" fate, a better "creature" inside each and every one of us.

All hail the übermensch!

(April 29, 2016 at 3:07 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Attributes such as weakness (physical and mental), desire ( such as obsessive power/wealth seeking), these are embedded in us, but we can always combat them,

And who gets to decide these weaknesses? You? Why do you have such a problem with the human condition?

(April 29, 2016 at 3:07 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: thus we are not our desires and attributes, you are not what you look like, we can choose to discriminate against "different beings", but indeed we can also house the sick and adopt cats, despite looking different and still: acting different.

Actually, we are the sum of our "desires and attributes" - in fact, that's pretty much what 'attributes' means. Take away those things, or deny them, and you no longer have a human being; you have an obedient, unquestioning drone. Is that what you want to be?

(April 29, 2016 at 3:07 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: This verse:

I don't care. Scripture-spam is just white noise, intended to fog the issue with the conceit of profundity. I don't play that game.

(April 28, 2016 at 4:42 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: There is this verse:

(Sura 41 Verse 53 )   We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness

It's speaking in the future tense; signs would be "shown" to people until they make sure it is the truth.
When you think about Islam, forget about the typical stereotypical way of "Sunnie/ Shia" that caused Muslims to forget the Quran and worship "tribal figures" and "long-bearded scholars" -just like Christians & Jews-; there is a context.

So why didn't somebody like Ibn al-Haytham, or another thinker from that great Arab age preceding the European Renaissance, look at the Quran and say: "The Quran says Allah's Throne is above water, is there a way we can confirm this Quran Iyaht?" Why is it never the Quran that leads people to scientific discoveries? Has any scientist ever looked at the Quran and claimed that it has lead them to a scientific discovery? Why are these only scientific miracles only after the science says it's true or seriously considering them (though in the case of super fluids you are mistaken)?

(April 28, 2016 at 4:42 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The context is very simple: we are here, on this planet, just to get tested. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not about God; it's about "US". The law of that God, is what gives "life"; worshiping him is life. So 1400 years, seems a decent lifespan. It's not God's fault that people choose to believe dictators and bigots and keep themselves occupied in lust and desire to a blinding degree, until a disaster hits them or a world war wakes them up; the signs are there, but the 1400 years are not God's fault; it's humanities fault.

Yet, Abraham -peace be upon him- for example, cracked through and saw reality for what it is..we can see reality.
Tell humans to stop hating, killing, robbing & fucking for a moment, then I'm sure those signs will be more clear..I mean that literally. And cut the ego, too.

I think it's a little unfair to blame people for their dictators. If you were conditioned from birth to believe Adolf Hitler is the greatest man ever, you'd probably believe that. And the threats of violence if you don't do as you're told probably keep a lot of people quiet. People don't like living in Saudi, you even said so yourself, but al-Saud will shoot or stone them if they disobey.

And, you know, these henchmen of al-Saud, just some of the bigots on this Earth, sincerely believe that they are doing the work of Allah. They make Allah look weak in the process of course, though, because if drawing Muhammad was really that bad, Allah would retaliate. Quran 13:13 says Allah will strike people with lightning, in'sha'Allah.

(March 24, 2016 at 6:58 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...fluid.html

Allah has told us about this already, Allah (God) resides above all in the 7th heaven, with "his throne being atop of water"..As strange as it may sound, that's how he,God, phrased this 1400 years ago. He revealed this fact to Mohaamed -Peace be Upon Him-, and Mohammed -who couldn't even read or right- reported it to the illiterate Arabs of the Middle Ages.

(Sura 11 Verse 7 )   And it is He who created the heavens and the earth in six days - and His Throne had been upon water - that He might test you as to which of you is best in deed. But if you say, "Indeed, you are resurrected after death," those who disbelieve will surely say, "This is not but obvious magic."

You will rise after you die..God exists. It can't be; a nomad in the desert before 1400 years ago wouldn't have ever thought about such thing.
He is testing us. And this life is nothing but a test..no wonder space/time wasn't so nice to our bodies; we are drowning..

Space/time is crushing us.  

God exists. 

We are being tested.

Didnt the Quran also say stars are closer to the Earth than the moon is? Didnt it say that Both Muhammad, Moses, and Abraham were all the first muslims?

You can find "predictions" of scientific things in unscientific books? Example being the bible's "prediction" of the hydrological cycle and the pattern of the wind. The truth is these verses are vauge, and can mean anything, there is no reason to think this is revealed wisdom.

EDIT:
He Who created the seven heavens, one above the other ...
And We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps ... (67:3,5)
And He completed them seven heavens in two days
and inspired in each heaven its command;
and We adorned the lower heaven with lamps,
and rendered it guarded... (41:12)
We have indeed adorned the lower heaven with the beauty of the stars. (37:6)
Do you not see how God has created the seven heavens
one above the other,
and made the moon a light in their midst,
and made the sun as a lamp? (71:15-16)

These must be metaphorical though ?

(April 29, 2016 at 6:40 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(April 29, 2016 at 3:20 am)Expired Wrote: Yeah, the obsessive desire to live eternally is embedded in some of us too, so lets trample over the ones who are not worthy of this eternal bliss, and impose our stupid idea of how to conduct ourselves on them, it's for their own good.

Actually, things should be totally on the opposite; one should not desire an eternal life "here" on earth; but in a different place in a different time under different standards: it might be desired.

For this life, you should not fear death, rather, you should "know and understand" that you will die at some moment in the future; and focus your whole energy not to enter hell, and go to the other alternative: that is heaven which rivers flow beneath it, and we live in it as immortal beings. Wishing "immortality" in this life, is a terrible wish, actually this wish is criticized in the Quran:

( Sura 2 Verse 96 )   And you will surely find them the most greedy of people for life - [even] more than those who associate others with Allah. One of them wishes that he could be granted life a thousand years, but it would not remove him in the least from the [coming] punishment that he should be granted life. And Allah is Seeing of what they do.

And this life is defined to be:

( Sura 75 Verse 20 )   Know that the life of this world is but amusement and diversion and adornment and boasting to one another and competition in increase of wealth and children - like the example of a rain whose [resulting] plant growth pleases the tillers; then it dries and you see it turned yellow; then it becomes [scattered] debris. And in the Hereafter is severe punishment and forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion.

The most beautiful words  I ever read..The most honest description I ever read for this life..
If you wish to live this life forever, then I have serious doubts about your brain functionality, and I can totally say that you either love how it's not fair, or you simply missed so many of its faces.

And here is a page from MY favourite book.

(April 29, 2016 at 7:48 am)Irrational Wrote: No, sorry, Atlas, "superfluid" is not the same as water. Plus, we're still not certain what the exact structure of the universe is AFAIK. This is just a hypothesis at this point.

http://hamariweb.com/dictionaries/water_...nings.aspx

Quote:

1. (n.) Any liquid secretion, humor, or the like, resembling water; esp., the urine.
   

Language is not on the side of your argument; irrational.
Though I completely agree on the second part of your comment; superfluid is still a hypothesis.

Stimbo

Quote:All hail the übermensch!

How do you pronounce that ><?

No, we won't reach the height of mountains or crack open the earth below on march; but we can sure become -or try our best- to become "that" person who does good and brings salvation to himself & -in through saving himself-:brings salvation to others.

Quote:And who gets to decide these weaknesses? You? Why do you have such a problem with the human condition?

If you can't resist it and it overwhelms you; then that is your weak spot. Just like anger; if somebody has a problem with you, he might keep raising the bet like an idiot in a poker game, despite having a lame hand, it ends up with him losing the whole match.

There, you can see that he can't reject his will to "hurt you", can't resist it all, the aftermath is him going in a never ending cycle of chasing his own tail, repeating himself over and over.

In wars -like chess-, you must focus on caughting "patterns of weakness" like that if you wanted to win; if you were to join the ranks of great tacticians.

That's how I define weakness.
It can lead to good things too; anyways..I don't hate weakness, it's a double edged weapon TBH.

Quote:Actually, we are the sum of our "desires and attributes" - in fact, that's pretty much what 'attributes' means. Take away those things, or deny them, and you no longer have a human being; you have an obedient, unquestioning drone. Is that what you want to be?

The desire shape our fate, and our end. For some attributes, they are developed because of our own actions, while some others are inherited indeed. 

I was wrong when I included "desire" in my sentence; accept my apology. I thought about it, and reconsidered. I would say: we are the sum of of our desires and actions. 

Quote:I don't care. Scripture-spam is just white noise, intended to fog the issue with the conceit of profundity. I don't play that game.

My logic was united with that of the book. I speak with it now.
It's not a white noise or ego. It's rather what fills my brain; the bricks that build my logic.

And the faults in my method are not due to it; they are due to me.

MNMP

Quote:So why didn't somebody like Ibn al-Haytham, or another thinker from that great Arab age preceding the European Renaissance, look at the Quran and say: "The Quran says Allah's Throne is above water, is there a way we can confirm this Quran Iyaht?" Why is it never the Quran that leads people to scientific discoveries? Has any scientist ever looked at the Quran and claimed that it has lead them to a scientific discovery? Why are these only scientific miracles only after the science says it's true or seriously considering them (though in the case of super fluids you are mistaken)?

I frankly have no answer, but I incline to say "how" and maybe "low self-esteem" ?. All the Sunni refrences I saw -I searched in Arabic so Hadith refrences also asserted it- are admitting that the throne of God is on water, and when ancient sayings+Quran say the same thing, it means the POV is extreamly strong beyond measure. 

I'll copy one saying for a scholar called "Al-Rabee'e Ibn Anas" الربيع ابن انس; it's my own translation; it can be found in Arabic here:

http://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/d...=49&ID=772

وقال [b]الربيع بن أنس [/b]: ( [b]) فلما خلق السموات والأرض ، قسم ذلك الماء قسمين ، فجعل نصفا تحت العرش ، وهو البحر المسجور . 

Al-Rabee'e Ibn Anas said: (and his throne was on the water), when he created heaven and earth, he divided that water into two: made one under the throne; that is "al bahr al masgoor".

I should note, that "al bahr al masgoor" in Islamic literature, is mentioned in the Quran, and it is said that it's above us, as this saying for "Ali" states:

http://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/d...51&ID=1810

وروى [b]الضحاك [/b]عن [b]النزال بن سبرة [/b]عن [b]علي [/b]أنه قال في البحر المسجور : هو بحر تحت العرش ، غمره كما بين سبع سموات إلى سبع أرضين ، فيه ماء غليظ يقال له : بحر الحيوان . يمطر العباد بعد النفخة الأولى منه أربعين صباحا فينبتون في قبورهم . هذا قول [b]مقاتل [/b]: أقسم الله بهذه الأشياء . ([b]) نازل كائن . 

And the Dahhak foretold, that Al-Nazal the son of Sabra said, that Ali said about "Al bahr al masgoor": it is a sea below the throne, its depth is like the depth between seven heavens to sevens earths, thick water is in it, called: "The sea of the animal/Bahr Al Hayawan". It rains on the slaves after the first blow from it 40 years, so they blossom from their graves...my translation,ends here, the rest is not much.

You can obviously see that they believed in it blindly; a leap of faith if were to be honest; but had no idea what the verse is about.. but it's obvious that the concept is in Islam's core.

Nobody saw what is above, that's for sure..if a new theory refered to something relevant to the verse, in such an obvious matter, indded we gotta comment as Quran readers and believers.

Quote:I think it's a little unfair to blame people for their dictators. If you were conditioned from birth to believe Adolf Hitler is the greatest man ever, you'd probably believe that. And the threats of violence if you don't do as you're told probably keep a lot of people quiet. People don't like living in Saudi, you even said so yourself, but al-Saud will shoot or stone them if they disobey.


And, you know, these henchmen of al-Saud, just some of the bigots on this Earth, sincerely believe that they are doing the work of Allah. They make Allah look weak in the process of course, though, because if drawing Muhammad was really that bad, Allah would retaliate. Quran 13:13 says Allah will strike people with lightning, in'sha'Allah.

MNMP ! Hey ! I grew up in Saudi Arabia, and was fed all types of Wahhabi/Tribal bullshit, I was taught to worship the Sauds, the king, the long-bearded goat-like scholars, and to hate westerners -wish that they die and their women to become my slaves-, but I grew up to be the AtlasS you see here, and I thank God dearly for that..I grew up to be the villain you see, from 1 to 10, rate my love to the Sauds xD so I can totally say that you're wrong !

I don't agree with what you said about the dictators, but the Saud henchmen, I totally agree: they are the worst, actually, the worst punishment for the Sauds is their own ego and filthy excess spending: did you here about the "2030" plan? their oil is ending, and they are literally panicking,  don't worry, their reign of terror is about to end soon, the demonic century that punished humanity for so long is falling down..

Regardless of whether or not the 'superfluid' of space evolves from hypothesis to theory, it is not a liquid. Though it may exhibit some 'water-like' properties, so does air and silly putty.

(April 30, 2016 at 7:31 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: MNMP

Quote:So why didn't somebody like Ibn al-Haytham, or another thinker from that great Arab age preceding the European Renaissance, look at the Quran and say: "The Quran says Allah's Throne is above water, is there a way we can confirm this Quran Iyaht?" Why is it never the Quran that leads people to scientific discoveries? Has any scientist ever looked at the Quran and claimed that it has lead them to a scientific discovery? Why are these only scientific miracles only after the science says it's true or seriously considering them (though in the case of super fluids you are mistaken)?

I frankly have no answer, but I incline to say "how" and maybe "low self-esteem" ?. All the Sunni refrences I saw -I searched in Arabic so Hadith refrences also asserted it- are admitting that the throne of God is on water, and when ancient sayings+Quran say the same thing, it means the POV is extreamly strong beyond measure.

The, Sunni at least, Hadith say (and there is a relevant Quran Iyaht which I will come to)  that Allah's throne directly above Sol, our sun one of the many, many suns in our universe. So to say that the throne is on top of water would be contradictory. The sun would instantly boil the water. e.g. Sahih Bukhari - Book 97, Hadith 60

Narrated Abu Dharr:
I asked the Prophet (ﷺ) regarding the Verse:--'And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term decreed for it.' (36.28) He said, "Its fixed course is underneath Allah's Throne."

OR another example:
Sahih Bukhari - Book 65, Hadith 4803
Narrated Abu Dharr:

I asked the Prophet (ﷺ) about the Statement of Allah:-- 'And the sun runs on fixed course for a term (decreed), ' (36.38) He said, "Its course is underneath "Allah's Throne." (Prostration of Sun trees, stars. mentioned in Qur'an and Hadith does not mean like our prostration but it means that these objects are obedient to their Creator (Allah) and they obey for what they have been created for).

We see this Iyaht in the Quran:

Quran 36:38 And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.

The context of the Iyaht (my study Quran borrows from the above Hadith and elaborates upon them): Muhammad asked somebody called Abu Dharr at sunset one day about where the sun goes and the Abu Dharr said Allah and his messenger know best. Muhammad subsequently replied and said the sun will travel until it prostates to Allah. And when it is underneath the throne of Allah (where it will surely boil all of the water which you claim is underneath the throne) and it asks Allah if it can rise again the next morning.

So that's his throne is on water debunked using the literature? Come on, the sun is plasma - it's way too hot for water to exist. This is a contradiction in the Quran, surely.

Quran 5:101-102 say not to question the prophets:
O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing. (101) Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.(102)

So maybe this is why he blindly believed? Muhammad revealed these verses after a man (or people, depending on the interpretation) were asking him 'annoying' questions. I say annoying but maybe that's the wrong word to use.

When Saudi falls I will quietly celebrate. Qatar will be the same as it will fail to adapt. Some in the Saudi elite want to be more like Dubai, I'm sure of it. But they are held back by others who do not want that. Saudi will fail unless it opens up to the world. Dubai realized ages ago that it can't rely on oil forever. For Saudi it's too little too late.

And with the fall of Saudi, all of those Wahaabi-Salafi scholars in the west will starve to death (probably). Only a tiny amount of people are attched to them by puppet strings. Without rich Saudi backers they will fall, along with things like Peace TV and Huda TV. These boobs might make good politicians though, because they are skilled liars.

We need to read Quran to understand Islam

https://www.nature.com/news/2005/050418/...418-5.html

Quote:Early Universe was a liquid

Quark-gluon blob surprises particle physicists.

And

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/sp...n-gravity/

Quote:Spacetime Might Be a Superfluid, and That Could Help Explain Gravity