(March 8, 2020 at 1:25 pm)Chad32 Wrote: If the system won't fix itself, best to let it break down, so it's forced to change. Pretty much what should have happened in 2008, except the government decided to funnel money into dying banks and companies, and not remove the people who broke the economy. Rather, keep kicking the can down the road until the bubble bursts again, and it's someone else's problem. The debt is the same way. We're not fixing it. We're just rising the ceiling, and kicking the damn can.

And you seriously think that the system will actually allow itself to be changed as it breaks down? Because, I got news for you, it already is breaking down, Trump and company are either immanetizing the eschaton or are just plain making it happen. And scroll to 2:22 in the video to see how the Republicans are reacting to it:




And if the neoliberal ideals of Barack Obama were just too far left for them to bear and onerous enough to them that they were willing to come close to tanking the economy and defaulting on the national debt multiple times, I have to admit that there’s a very good chance the same will happen with Bernie.

So, be prepared for the possibility that literally the only choices are that the Democrats will keep kicking the can up the road or the Republicans basically making America like this:




Why yes, that does suck.

(March 8, 2020 at 11:42 am)Chad32 Wrote: Conservative apologist arguments? Ok. Guess I'm just the crazy conspiracy guy here, that thinks there was fuckery going on with the primary in 2016, just like there's fuckery going on now, and I just need to fall in line when the only candidate who actually cares about my vote doesn't get the nomination?

Here is a good article addressing the idiotic conspiracy theories of the DNC rigging the primary.

In all honesty, I'd probably just leave politics altogether at that point. Unless I start seeing a third party rise with Justice Dems at the helm, or some such, I don't think anyone deserves my vote.

(March 8, 2020 at 4:35 pm)AFTT47 Wrote:

(March 8, 2020 at 11:42 am)Chad32 Wrote: Conservative apologist arguments? Ok. Guess I'm just the crazy conspiracy guy here, that thinks there was fuckery going on with the primary in 2016, just like there's fuckery going on now, and I just need to fall in line when the only candidate who actually cares about my vote doesn't get the nomination?

Here is a good article addressing the idiotic conspiracy theories of the DNC rigging the primary.

I can link articles too 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/...016-215774

https://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-p...democracy/

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekl...ie-sanders

https://nypost.com/2017/11/02/ex-dnc-cha...m-primary/





For all her faults even Warren isn't dishonest enough to deny it 

But this is all CONSERVATIVE talking points

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(March 8, 2020 at 4:47 pm)Figbash Wrote:

Democrats who vote in bad leaders elect Republicans

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(March 8, 2020 at 3:55 pm)EgoDeath Wrote:

(March 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: It's not conservative apologetics it's realism

I don't think it's helpful to label arguments as "liberal apologetics" or "conservative apologetics"... I am more concerned with how logical an argument is rather than whether liberals or conservatives tend to use the specific argument. It only serves to further divide Democrats and liberals and doesn't really help us in any way.

So, did Hillary push a lot of people toward Trump? Yeah, I'd probably say so. But, so what? I think the more important thing is we all vote Democrat this year.

I can agree only in part

(March 8, 2020 at 4:47 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: I can agree only in part

Well, people get a sense of belonging and well-being when they're part of a group or team. This sort of divisive hostility we have towards liberals who "aren't liberal enough," in my opinion, does much more harm than good. I think it makes more sense for us, as Democrats, to find a common ground with one another. I don't know if it helps our party as a whole to condemn some liberals for being too progressive or "regressive," and for other liberals to condemn the more moderate among us for not being liberal enough.

I just don't think it does anything for unity in our party and probably has something to do with why Trump got into office in the first place.

(March 8, 2020 at 4:47 pm)Figbash Wrote:

I mentioned this elsewhere I think...when I went to vote the line for Republicans was snaked all through the building (library).  I walked in and was about 10th in line for the Democrats.  There were only Republican supporters out front handing out literature and holding signs.  

I didn't mention that when a first time voter showed up it was announced and the people working the polls all cheered - while I was there these announcements all came from the Republican sign in table.

The Dems are pissing away this election - no big shock to me.

(March 8, 2020 at 5:49 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I mentioned this elsewhere I think...when I went to vote the line for Republicans was snaked all through the building (library).  I walked in and was about 10th in line for the Democrats.  There were only Republican supporters out front handing out literature and holding signs.  

I didn't mention that when a first time voter showed up it was announced and the people working the polls all cheered - while I was there these announcements all came from the Republican sign in table.

The Dems are pissing away this election - no big shock to me.

Well, if there's any truth to this on the macro scale, it seems to support what I'm saying - it helps us very little to be so divided as Democrats.

Do I like Biden? Not really. There's nothing all that interesting or compelling about the guy. However, I'll still vote for him because he'd be better than Trump.

Seeing as how Biden will likely be our candidate this year, I encourage everyone to look over his plan for when/if he becomes President: Joe's Vision. Looking over the information there, I do see a few things that I like... Biden plans to:

-improve our immigration situation (he wants to undo the damage done by Trump, which I support)

-strengthen the Middle Class via job creation

-improve gun safety regulations

-create harsher penalties for violence against women

-improve our criminal justice system and end profiteering off of filling prisons

-tackle climate change by reducing emissions to net-zero by 2050

-improve rights for LGBTQ+ folks and end discrimination in the workplace

-hold big pharma accountable for the opioid crisis

...and while I could get into specifics here, I encourage everyone to read through these plans for themselves. Obviously, following through on these issues is another story entirely, but I think that truly understanding a candidate's agenda and being as informed as you can about how they plan to follow through on that agenda is the best shot you have at intelligently choosing a candidate to vote for.

No longer can we make choosing the President into a goddamned popularity contest. It is insane to me that people vote for a President based on likeability. It's as if people stop growing up after fucking high school and still choose candidates based on whether or not they'd have a beer with the guy or gal in question. So fucking moronic.

But... the point being... there are a couple of things about Biden's plan that I can get behind. So rather than focusing on what divides us, why not focus on what we can get behind, where we have common ground and go from there. It kills me that some people refused to vote because they didn't like either choice. So yeah, in that way, Hillary probably did drive a lot of folks to vote for Trump, or to fail to vote at all.... essentially giving a vote to the other side.

I just don't think the left should continue to cannibalize itself.

(March 8, 2020 at 5:49 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(March 8, 2020 at 4:47 pm)Figbash Wrote:

I mentioned this elsewhere I think...when I went to vote the line for Republicans was snaked all through the building (library).  I walked in and was about 10th in line for the Democrats.  There were only Republican supporters out front handing out literature and holding signs.  

I didn't mention that when a first time voter showed up it was announced and the people working the polls all cheered - while I was there these announcements all came from the Republican sign in table.

The Dems are pissing away this election - no big shock to me.

If your profile is accurate, you’re in Texas. This does not really surprise me for a state that last went Democratic in 1976.

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(March 8, 2020 at 5:40 pm)EgoDeath Wrote:

(March 8, 2020 at 4:47 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: I can agree only in part

Well, people get a sense of belonging and well-being when they're part of a group or team. This sort of divisive hostility we have towards liberals who "aren't liberal enough," in my opinion, does much more harm than good. I think it makes more sense for us, as Democrats, to find a common ground with one another. I don't know if it helps our party as a whole to condemn some liberals for being too progressive or "regressive," and for other liberals to condemn the more moderate among us for not being liberal enough.

I just don't think it does anything for unity in our party and probably has something to do with why Trump got into office in the first place.

(March 8, 2020 at 6:21 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(March 8, 2020 at 5:49 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I mentioned this elsewhere I think...when I went to vote the line for Republicans was snaked all through the building (library).  I walked in and was about 10th in line for the Democrats.  There were only Republican supporters out front handing out literature and holding signs.  

I didn't mention that when a first time voter showed up it was announced and the people working the polls all cheered - while I was there these announcements all came from the Republican sign in table.

The Dems are pissing away this election - no big shock to me.

If your profile is accurate, you’re in Texas. This does not really surprise me for a state that last went Democratic in 1976.

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I do live in the DFW Metroplex.  In 2016 Dallas County voted Democrat.  I am about 30 miles from downtown Dallas and very near the county line.  The area I live in has a very diverse population.  This county wasn't considered purely Republican on maps from 2016 but I couldn't tell that on voting day.  
My comment was based solely on the polling place I am assigned to.  In past elections I haven't seen the parties split into party lines and the number of people carrying signs and handing out literature were split pretty much 50/50.  The 2016 election was a 55R/40D/5Other split.  I have lived here almost 14 years so I have voted at the same site several times for local, state, and national elections.  What I gave was my observation.
I don't live in BFE yee-haw cowboy country.