Considering that none of believe in this crap anyway, we sure have a lot of answers.

I really was expecting a xtian or two, but they usually avoid answering questions that cannot be answered "goddidit".

Quote:I really was expecting a xtian or two

They think it is a trick question.

However you interpret the story, metaphorically or literally, it represents reality: bad stuff exists.

So did the bible authors get it wrong: does bad stuff exist?

Sans God: bad stuff exists.

(October 23, 2011 at 3:35 pm)IATIA Wrote: Why did god create the 'talking snake'? Did he not know what would happen?

How did the 'talking snake' get into the garden? Was god not watching?

This god must have known the 'talking snake' was more powerful than Eve and that Eve had no chance. So this must have been a setup from the get go.

God didn't create evil. If you check the bible, there is only one place that God is creating anything, which is at the beginning of Genesis. When God finished creation, it was "very good".

What he did create were creatures capable of choosing good or evil. I think this video explains the concept pretty well:





The talking snake was Satan, and yes God knew he was in the garden. God had allowed Satan to test Adam and Eve to see if they would keep His command. To say Eve had no chance isn't true. She knew what she was doing was wrong but she did it anyway. Because of that, death entered the world through their sin and the creation fell.

The world started out perfect, but because of sin the world is fallen and human nature is corrupted. God has been, at every step, working to restore and reconcile creation back to Himself, which culminated when Jesus broke the powers of sin and death at calvary.

(October 24, 2011 at 6:58 am)lucent Wrote:

(October 23, 2011 at 3:35 pm)IATIA Wrote: Why did god create the 'talking snake'? Did he not know what would happen?

How did the 'talking snake' get into the garden? Was god not watching?

This god must have known the 'talking snake' was more powerful than Eve and that Eve had no chance. So this must have been a setup from the get go.

God didn't create evil. If you check the bible, there is only one place that God is creating anything, which is at the beginning of Genesis. When God finished creation, it was "very good".

What he did create were creatures capable of choosing good or evil. I think this video explains the concept pretty well:





The talking snake was Satan, and yes God knew he was in the garden. God had allowed Satan to test Adam and Eve to see if they would keep His command. To say Eve had no chance isn't true. She knew what she was doing was wrong but she did it anyway. Because of that, death entered the world through their sin and the creation fell.

The world started out perfect and became corrupted because of sin. Because of sin, the world is fallen and human nature is corrupted. God has been, at every step, working to restore and reconcile creation back to Himself, which culminated when Jesus broke the powers of sin and death at calvary.

Why even predispose them to this temptation? You know how I know that's some bullshit, lucent?

Because I love my children, so I wouldn't sit a loaded gun on the coffee table, tell them not to play with it, and then go stand in the kitchen and peek in on them to see if they are going to be obedient or not. That's fucked up, and if you don't think it's fucked up, you're fucked up.

It's not love if your love for them, and desire for their well-being is contingent upon their submission to your will. You create beings capable of free will, and then punish them when their will doesn't please you? God is a dumbass!

(October 24, 2011 at 6:58 am)lucent Wrote: God didn't create evil. If you check the bible, there is only one place that God is creating anything, which is at the beginning of Genesis. When God finished creation, it was "very good".

What he did create were creatures capable of choosing good or evil. I think this video explains the concept pretty well:

The talking snake was Satan, and yes God knew he was in the garden. God had allowed Satan to test Adam and Eve to see if they would keep His command. To say Eve had no chance isn't true. She knew what she was doing was wrong but she did it anyway. Because of that, death entered the world through their sin and the creation fell.

The world started out perfect and became corrupted because of sin. Because of sin, the world is fallen and human nature is corrupted. God has been, at every step, working to restore and reconcile creation back to Himself, which culminated when Jesus broke the powers of sin and death at calvary.

(October 24, 2011 at 7:09 am)aleialoura Wrote: Why even predispose them to this temptation? You know how I know that's some bullshit, lucent?

Because I love my children, so I wouldn't sit a loaded gun on the coffee table, tell them not to play with it, and then go stand in the kitchen and peek in on them to see if they are going to be obedient or not. That's fucked up, and if you don't think it's fucked up, you're fucked up.

He had to give them the choice, otherwise they would just be robots. God could have created them so they would just do whatever He told them to do, but you can't have meaningful relationships with automotons. And It wasn't a loaded gun, it was an apple, and they both lived to be almost 1000 years of age. It's not as if God stopped taking care of them.

(October 24, 2011 at 7:09 am)aleialoura Wrote: It's not love if your love for them, and desire for their well-being is contingent upon their submission to your will. You create beings capable of free will, and then punish them when their will doesn't please you? God is a dumbass!

He loved them regardless. He warned them of the consequences beforehand and they did it anyway. Instead of bearing all of this out, He could have just wiped them off the map and started over. You don't seem to understand that all life is utterly dependent on God for its existence, from the environment to the systems of your body, from your next breath to the atoms that bind you together, He is upholding it all. God knows the way that leads to eternal life, and every path that leads away from God leads to death. There is *no* life without God. So, this is more than submission to an authority, this is about what makes your life even possible. Choosing anything other than God is spiritual suicide.

(October 24, 2011 at 7:34 am)lucent Wrote: He had to give them the choice, otherwise they would just be robots. God could have created them so they would just do whatever He told them to do, but you can't have meaningful relationships with automotons. And It wasn't a loaded gun, it was an apple, and they both lived to be almost 1000 years of age. It's not as if God stopped taking care of them.

In other words, it was even more tempting than a loaded gun, because apples are nice.

He could not give them the choice without knowing what they would do. When he created them, his omniscience would have told him what was going to happen, and he could have changed it at any point, but didn't.

He also didn't have to give them the apple in the first place. Why create a garden with a dangerous tree in it? What is so wrong with knowledge anyway? This is just a shitty story used to justify keeping knowledge from the peasants.

(October 24, 2011 at 7:34 am)lucent Wrote: they both lived to be almost 1000 years of age.

I call bullshit on this one

(October 24, 2011 at 7:41 am)frankiej Wrote:

(October 24, 2011 at 7:34 am)lucent Wrote: they both lived to be almost 1000 years of age.

I call bullshit on this one

As do I. How do you calculate the age of the Earth when you ascribe these ridiculous ages to people? I could justify the scientifically determined age of the universe simply by saying everyone in the OT lived to be a few million.

So we're all damned because he gave adam and eve freewill? As an omnipotent god he should have been able to foresee all the consequences of this act.

If your god is up there, he is responsible for everything including evil.