I think many here know I have a friend from a deeply red state in the middle of America. An even outside this issue, the reality is all of our species started out in Africa. 

I've known  for a  long time that he, (my best friend) is part Native American. He has a government issued card stating his genes. Ok, but here is what I don't get. While I am happy that this card gets him better healthcare, it is still stuck in old language in the fact it does not say, "Native American" but still uses the word "Indian".

Once you accept the fact that the only reason "Indian" was ever used was because Columbus was a dumfuck an thought he landed in India. 

One can accept the lack of understanding back then, but it is fucking 2020, not 1492.

I’ve read that there’s a move to reclassify all such peoples as ‘aborigines’, with appropriate modifiers (Australian aborigine, American aborigine, etc). While more technically correct than ‘Native American’, I don’t see it catching on.

Boru

It is important to keep in mind that languages have tides; and the meaning of words change arbitrarily from time to time. Perhaps it is outdated to say Indian, but there will certainly come a day when saying Native American will sound just as backwards. My guess is that this will happen either because the phrase overgeneralizes a diversity of people that spanned two continents, or because the term American is an anachronistic label given by Europeans to a land which was not formerly known as America.

My point is this, although I do think its important to keep up with trends and politically correct terms, I don't think those that are stuck with the outdated phrases should be looked down upon. Words naturally undergo pejoration, and it is often the newer generations that change the rules while the older generation goes on using what they thought was inoffensive growing up--like Native American today.

(July 11, 2020 at 12:37 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I’ve read that there’s a move to reclassify all such peoples as ‘aborigines’, with appropriate modifiers (Australian aborigine, American aborigine, etc). While more technically correct than ‘Native American’, I don’t see it catching on.

Boru

 I have been razing my friend today for pointing this language out, trust me, he was laughing. It is the same reaction I get when I admit that Washington's NFL team needs to go. 

I literally joked with him that he needed to get off rotary phones and the first version of Windows.

And don't get me started about my trip to Australia. My late friend Bob's sister and her husband use the same BS excuses as to why Aboriginals are lazy. Bob always knew they were full of shit, but you don't get to pick family. 

I kid you not, I spent 5 days on a road trip with my late friend's sister who spent time bitching about how Aboriginals were lazy, only to end up at a shop dedicated to Aboriginal art owned by a female Aboriginal, ignoring the fact in that same trip, she had no problem promoting a Polish German artist friend whom we spent a night with at a party living on the same island.

It was everything I took to bite my lip. I was in the middle of nowhere, and if she had dumped me, I would have been fucked. I still needed to get back home. But trust me even my best friend agreed with me, the guy I paid for because Bob was our mutual friend.

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"Aboriginals are lazy" was her argument. But she takes us to a business owned by female Aboriginal.

(July 11, 2020 at 1:13 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 11, 2020 at 12:37 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I’ve read that there’s a move to reclassify all such peoples as ‘aborigines’, with appropriate modifiers (Australian aborigine, American aborigine, etc). While more technically correct than ‘Native American’, I don’t see it catching on.

Boru

 I have been razing my friend today for pointing this language out, trust me, he was laughing. It is the same reaction I get when I admit that Washington's NFL team needs to go. 

I literally joked with him that he needed to get off rotary phones and the first version of Windows.

And don't get me started about my trip to Australia. My late friend Bob's sister and her husband use the same BS excuses as to why Aboriginals are lazy. Bob always knew they were full of shit, but you don't get to pick family. 

I kid you not, I spent 5 days on a road trip with my late friend's sister who spent time bitching about how Aboriginals were lazy, only to end up at a shop dedicated to Aboriginal art owned by a female Aboriginal, ignoring the fact in that same trip, she had no problem promoting a Polish German artist friend whom we spent a night with at a party living on the same island.

It was everything I took to bite my lip. I was in the middle of nowhere, and if she had dumped me, I would have been fucked. I still needed to get back home. But trust me even my best friend agreed with me, the guy I paid for because Bob was our mutual friend.

---

"Aboriginals are lazy" was her argument. But she takes us to a business owned by female Aboriginal.

Yeah, don't care about any of that.

Boru

(July 11, 2020 at 1:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 11, 2020 at 1:13 pm)Brian37 Wrote:  I have been razing my friend today for pointing this language out, trust me, he was laughing. It is the same reaction I get when I admit that Washington's NFL team needs to go. 

I literally joked with him that he needed to get off rotary phones and the first version of Windows.

And don't get me started about my trip to Australia. My late friend Bob's sister and her husband use the same BS excuses as to why Aboriginals are lazy. Bob always knew they were full of shit, but you don't get to pick family. 

I kid you not, I spent 5 days on a road trip with my late friend's sister who spent time bitching about how Aboriginals were lazy, only to end up at a shop dedicated to Aboriginal art owned by a female Aboriginal, ignoring the fact in that same trip, she had no problem promoting a Polish German artist friend whom we spent a night with at a party living on the same island.

It was everything I took to bite my lip. I was in the middle of nowhere, and if she had dumped me, I would have been fucked. I still needed to get back home. But trust me even my best friend agreed with me, the guy I paid for because Bob was our mutual friend.

---

"Aboriginals are lazy" was her argument. But she takes us to a business owned by female Aboriginal.

Yeah, don't care about any of that.

Boru

I am going to let this speak for itself.

I qualify, just barely, for a card.  Don't want or need it.  The card should designate by tribe or nation.  "Indian" is a confusing term.

By all means, do so. I thought we were discussing terms for indigenous people. Didn’t realize I was going to be treated to one of your Australia anecdotes.

Boru

Rewriting history again?


Columbis did NOT think he had landed in India.

In 1492 the country now known as India was named Hindustan.

The term Indian comes from his description of the indiginees as "en dios" - in god....


If you are gonna bitch about history - get the story right.

(July 11, 2020 at 1:03 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: It is important to keep in mind that languages have tides; and the meaning of words change arbitrarily from time to time. Perhaps it is outdated to say Indian, but there will certainly come a day when saying Native American will sound just as backwards. My guess is that this will happen either because the phrase overgeneralizes a diversity of people that spanned two continents, or because the term American is an anachronistic label given by Europeans to a land which was not formerly known as America.

My point is this, although I do think its important to keep up with trends and politically correct terms, I don't think those that are stuck with the outdated phrases should be looked down upon. Words naturally undergo pejoration, and it is often the newer generations that change the rules while the older generation goes on using what they thought was inoffensive growing up--like Native American today.

This is not lost on me, but if times change, and they do, updating matters.

How many people today go up to a random black person and call them "Negro"  much less the more offensive "N"word.

My friend gets that the word "Indian" for its time was not always meant as a racial slur. But just like it is unfortunately still true today, even in Australia you have people thinking Aboriginals are "lazy". 

It is also true that "gay" started out as a word meaning "happy" only. But it got turned into a homophobic slur, while todays gays use it as a term for acceptance and inclusion. But nobody would accept that same word being used today to mean homophobia. "F*ggot" in England meant a smoke. Nobody sane today uses that word in America to describe gays.



I don't see the term "Indian" or even "Redskin" having any saving grace.

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(July 11, 2020 at 1:58 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: By all means, do so. I thought we were discussing terms for indigenous people. Didn’t realize I was going to be treated to one of your Australia anecdotes.

Boru

If one is going to claim they care, it makes  no logical sense to make a statement to imply that you do not care.

Please tell me what the lady Aboriginal artist did to deserve a bullshit blanket statement by our host claiming she was lazy by proxy of label and for being indigenous? I don't see that as any different than American history where whites blame blacks for urban problems.