(July 29, 2020 at 12:47 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: Just so everyone's clear, the source Sung cited was from the Ask A Historian Subreddit asking about how historically accurate your meme was. And, bear in mind, Ask A Historian has some damn high standards for what they'll keep.

To put the actual answer into perspective, since Huggy Bear's been taking paragraphs out of context to claim that the historian is saying "No, it's not real, but here's why it is," here's the conclusion, which explains it succinctly:

Quote:n conclusion then, yes, the meme you have encountered is largely fictionalised. Whilst the sexual exploitation of male slaves by white men and women alike was absolutely a real thing, as was the use of ritualised public humiliation and violence as a means of dehumanisation and asserting control, the exact phenomena this article describes strikes me as being quite fanciful. It is doubtlessly circulated with an ulterior motive and an agenda in mind, one that is probably tinged with homophobic sentiments. There is no shortage of very real trauma in the historical record when it comes to slavery - these real people who suffered so much injustice do not need to have, nor do they deserve to be demeaned by, us inventing more. We should likewise be careful not to impose our own modern ways of thinking onto the people of the past, for similar reasons - as historians we must try to understand these people somewhat as they understood themselves. Our own ideas about which boxes people should be placed into aren't very useful for doing that.

And, of course, the author supplies several sources.

So, to sum up:

• Male on Male Sexual Abuse between Massa and his male slaves was a thing that happened on occasion: Confirmed (though, it should go without saying that Massa-on-"N-word-called-a-Wench" sexual abuse was far more common.)
  
• Buck Breaking as described as in Huggy Bear's meme: Busted
  

And, frankly,  I should probably note that (as counterintuitive as it may seem) rape, especially in contexts like this where there's such an extreme imbalance of power, isn't even necessarily related to sexual orientation. Case in point, Oz:



When Schillinger (or Adebisi) rapes a male prisoner on the show, it's pretty explicitly about power and not because he just wants a piece of ass that bad, and what research I've done into the subject suggests this is how it generally works in the real world. Naturally, I strongly suspect that scenarios like this are far more common in prisons than on slave plantations.

I didn't feel the need to cite it . But thank you all the same Rye . Now he will just go back to cutting up his post and claiming he contradict himself when he didn't . And pushing an Afrocentric documentary directed by a homophobic pick up artist .(the documentary literally pushes the Melanin theory )

(July 29, 2020 at 12:10 am)SUNGULA Wrote: Nah i have refuted all you nonsense so far . You on the other hand 

posted a meme .Then claim scholarly sources while providing none .Then posted a clip on a clearly homophobic youtube channel  . The clip in question from a quack documentary directed by the guy who wrote this 

As if that's not against twitters tos lol, you do realize tweets can and have been photo-shopped, for a tweet that has been retweeted 1.2k times and has 3.8k likes, can't find any such tweet or any mention of it on twitter.

(July 29, 2020 at 12:10 am)SUNGULA Wrote:

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Yeah..... he seems to talk about the white LGBT community a lot 

Key word being WHITE, yes he calls out the hypocrisy in the white gay community who never say a word when someone from their community is harming black gay people, my first post in this thread was about the racism in the white gay community, so it seems we've come full circle.






[/quote]

Just when I think I know Huggy’s agenda in this thread, I become lost again with the next posting.

(July 29, 2020 at 12:47 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: Just so everyone's clear, the source Sung cited was from the Ask A Historian Subreddit asking about how historically accurate your meme was. And, bear in mind, Ask A Historian has some damn high standards for what they'll keep.

To put the actual answer into perspective, since Huggy Bear's been taking paragraphs out of context to claim that the historian is saying "No, it's not real, but here's why it is," here's the conclusion, which explains it succinctly:

Quote:n conclusion then, yes, the meme you have encountered is largely fictionalised. Whilst the sexual exploitation of male slaves by white men and women alike was absolutely a real thing, as was the use of ritualised public humiliation and violence as a means of dehumanisation and asserting control, the exact phenomena this article describes strikes me as being quite fanciful. It is doubtlessly circulated with an ulterior motive and an agenda in mind, one that is probably tinged with homophobic sentiments. There is no shortage of very real trauma in the historical record when it comes to slavery - these real people who suffered so much injustice do not need to have, nor do they deserve to be demeaned by, us inventing more. We should likewise be careful not to impose our own modern ways of thinking onto the people of the past, for similar reasons - as historians we must try to understand these people somewhat as they understood themselves. Our own ideas about which boxes people should be placed into aren't very useful for doing that.

And, of course, the author supplies several sources.

So, to sum up:

• Male on Male Sexual Abuse between Massa and his male slaves was a thing that happened on occasion: Confirmed (though, it should go without saying that Massa-on-"N-word-called-a-Wench" sexual abuse was far more common.)
  
• Buck Breaking as described as in Huggy Bear's meme: Busted
  

I like your attempts to downplay history... The reddit post almost states word for word what the exact same thing the meme says. How you somehow feel that posts refutes the meme is beyond me.

Quote:Fundamentally though, sexual exploitation in slavery was about more than physical gratification: it was about power. Rape and sexual assault were tools of violence, humiliation and dehumanisation just as much as the whip or the fist were. They were used both to realise and to express the power of the white slave owner over his or her black slaves. Male on male sexual violence was a means by which the incredible power of the slave owner could be demonstrated; to its victims living in a profoundly gendered society (and slave communities were strongly gendered even if in different ways to white society), it was a uniquely and profoundly humiliating act of violence that directly assaulted their masculinity and their dignity. That power and humiliation lay not only in the ability of slave owners to actually commit sexual assault against other men, but in the fact that they could do it, keep it a secret from a wider society that demonised same-sex activity, and get away with doing so.

Notice the post ALSO states: "That power and humiliation lay not only in the ability of slave owners to actually commit sexual assault against other men, but in the fact that they could do it, keep it a secret from a wider society that demonised same-sex activity, and get away with doing so."
The fact that there are few documented cases does not speak to how often the practice has occurred.

Quote:I like your attempts to downplay history... The reddit post almost states word for word what the exact same thing the meme says. How you somehow feel that posts refutes the meme is beyond me.

How you attempt to revise history is beyond me . And it literally doesn't . You are joke Huggy 

Quote:Notice the post ALSO states: "That power and humiliation lay not only in the ability of slave owners to actually commit sexual assault against other men, but in the fact that they could do it, keep it a secret from a wider society that demonised same-sex activity, and get away with doing so."

The fact that there are few documented cases does not speak to how often the practice has occurred.

And there you are chopping up the document again . 



Again his article refutes your sad attempt at making gays the evil racists 

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(July 29, 2020 at 1:36 am)Eleven Wrote: Just when I think I know Huggy’s agenda in this thread, I become lost again with the next posting.

Really i think his agenda is rather obvious

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Quote:As if that's not against twitters tos lol, you do realize tweets can and have been photo-shopped, for a tweet that has been retweeted 1.2k times and has 3.8k likes, can't find any such tweet or any mention of it on twitter.

Yes it is against twitters TOS which is why he deleted it . But by all means prove it was doctored lol 

Quote:Key word being WHITE, yes he calls out the hypocrisy in the white gay community who never say a word when someone from their community is harming black gay people, my first post in this thread was about the racism in the white gay community, so it seems we've come full circle.

1. Lol no the key Word is LGBT he just attaches white to it as a cover , And there was no hypocrisy Ed Buck was widely condemned by LGBT community . And none of the excuses the third post he just tries to deflect .

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Ultimately Huggies Anti LGBT bullshit has been exposed 

1.Attempting to vilify gays (buck breaking)

2.Pushing a bullshit Afrocentric documentary from a Homophobe .Then trying to defend said Homophobe by saying that because he puts the word white with it .It's somehow not homophobic and declaring tweets to be fake without evidence .

3. Chopping up a document to try and call it contradictory or trying to push the absurd idea it's supports his position

Overall a sad sad show . Anyway i'm done dealing with this clown .

What the post describes is same-sex rape. It does not, however, describe any incident where male slaves were sodomised in front of their wives, children, friends, and family. It describes a practice that was kept a secret, which, it could just be me, but this kind of throws a wrench into the idea that this was common enough to be given a name.

(July 29, 2020 at 8:43 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: What the post describes is same-sex rape. It does not, however, describe any incident where male slaves were sodomised in front of their wives, children, friends, and family. It describes a practice that was kept a secret, which, it could just be me, but this kind of throws a wrench into the idea that this was common enough to be given a name.

All true . But he's obsessed with gays being rapists and villains .

(July 29, 2020 at 8:43 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: What the post describes is same-sex rape. It does not, however, describe any incident where male slaves were sodomised in front of their wives, children, friends, and family. It describes a practice that was kept a secret, which, it could just be me, but this kind of throws a wrench into the idea that this was common enough to be given a name.

Funny how in YOUR mind, secret means uncommon... The fact that there are even documented cases would suggests that the practice was very common. If you happened to see a couple of roaches running around your house, it's pretty much a guarantee you have an infestation.

Black men were ‘particularly vulnerable’ to sexual abuse by late University of Michigan doctor, lawyer says

Quote:ANN ARBOR, MI — A group of 40 black men who say they were abused by late University of Michigan athletic doctor Robert Anderson have retained lawyer Jamie White of White Law PLLC in Okemos, Michigan.

White, who represented more than 160 victims of former Michigan State University doctor Larry Nassar, said his clients didn’t come to him all at once, but it was a “movement of momentum." A vast majority of the men are former UM athletes, White said, and he knows that these men were “particularly vulnerable” to Anderson.

“Most, if not all of these men from the 1970s and 80s, were first-generation college students. They came from depressed socioeconomic backgrounds, and their only lifeline was these athletic scholarships,” White said. “So, for those reasons, these men literally just bared what Anderson would do because, as they will say, there weren’t any options. They will all unilaterally say that had they not cooperated with these sports physicals, they would have lost their scholarships.”

Keep in mind this article is speaking of COLLEGE STUDENTS, not slaves, who would've had it much worse.

Let's just be clear, anyone that isn't like me, is just like me.
We all bleed RED.
One day, we will all be dead.

Talking about black men and gay sex, Huggy Bear, did you ever hear about "on the down low"?