Quote:The Quran states explicitly in this verse that the universe is expanding:

Oh no it so does'nt. The word actually used in the quranic verse is "sky سماء" , and the word at the end of the verse موسعون tramslated into "expanders" could also mean "broadeners" or simply "Rich and capable". The last is the one chosen by most Muslim interpreter, having nothing to do with expanding the heaven. Still, even if it wasnt, it would only mean that god made the sky breod, simply! this understanding makes much more sence when u read the verse in Arabic. Now, the next verse talks about the earth being "spread out", which is basically about the being flat. Oh yeah I know u would insists that its not about the earth being literally flatened (though this is what the word in usage ماهدون basically means) but that its looks like that from the prospective of human eye, fine, but the same way u have no right to insist that the previous passage means anything more than the sky being broad to the human eye. Dont just selectively change prospective in the next verse!

what doaes it mean the word sky or heaven or in arabic "السماء" 
what is it exactly and precisely 
to talk science u should give us an accurent physical meaning associated to the word heaven in coran
is it the whole universe?
is it the atmophere of the earth ?
if u're gonna say it's the universe trying to adapting it with the cosmological concepts u'll get in many other problems with it bcz quran say that the earth was created before the heavens 
the heavens was elevated from the earth 
and that's not the cosmos at all

(August 9, 2020 at 8:36 am)Apistos Wrote:

Quote:The Quran states explicitly in this verse that the universe is expanding:

Oh no it so does'nt. The word actually used in the quranic verse is "sky سماء" , and the word at the end of the verse موسعون tramslated into "expanders" could also mean "broadeners" or simply "Rich and capable". The last is the one chosen by most Muslim interpreter, having nothing to do with expanding the heaven. Still, even if it wasnt, it would only mean that god made the sky breod, simply! this understanding makes much more sence when u read the verse in Arabic. Now, the next verse talks about the earth being "spread out", which is basically about the being flat. Oh yeah I know u would insists that its not about the earth being literally flatened (though this is what the word in usage ماهدون basically means) but that its looks like that from the prospective of human eye, fine, but the same way u have no right to insist that the previous passage means anything more than the sky being broad to the human eye. Dont just selectively change prospective in the next verse!

No, it doesn't mean "rich and capable". The word literally mean "expander" or also "widener".
Please refer to the rich discussion I had with the member "Grandizer" on page 13 of this topic:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-61164-p...pid1986736

Also, ماهدون doesn't mean -even closely- that the earth is flattened; it means -literally- that the earth was made suitable for roads to exist.

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(August 9, 2020 at 9:08 am)Ibn Warraq Wrote: what doaes it mean the word sky or heaven or in arabic "السماء" 
what is it exactly and precisely 
to talk science u should give us an accurent physical meaning associated to the word heaven in coran
is it the whole universe?
is it the atmophere of the earth ?
if u're gonna say it's the universe trying to adapting it with the cosmological concepts u'll get in many other problems with it bcz quran say that the earth was created before the heavens 
the heavens was elevated from the earth 
and that's not the cosmos at all

Please use full words in order to understand you.
But I demand you to bring the verse that says the heaven elevated from the earth.

(August 9, 2020 at 9:08 am)Ibn Warraq Wrote: what doaes it mean the word sky or heaven or in arabic "السماء" 
what is it exactly and precisely 
to talk science u should give us an accurent physical meaning associated to the word heaven in coran
is it the whole universe?
is it the atmophere of the earth ?
if u're gonna say it's the universe trying to adapting it with the cosmological concepts u'll get in many other problems with it bcz quran say that the earth was created before the heavens 
the heavens was elevated from the earth 
and that's not the cosmos at all

Winter deludes himself he understands his book better then anyone

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(August 9, 2020 at 8:36 am)Apistos Wrote:

Quote:The Quran states explicitly in this verse that the universe is expanding:

Oh no it so does'nt. The word actually used in the quranic verse is "sky سماء" , and the word at the end of the verse موسعون tramslated into "expanders" could also mean "broadeners" or simply "Rich and capable". The last is the one chosen by most Muslim interpreter, having nothing to do with expanding the heaven. Still, even if it wasnt, it would only mean that god made the sky breod, simply! this understanding makes much more sence when u read the verse in Arabic. Now, the next verse talks about the earth being "spread out", which is basically about the being flat. Oh yeah I know u would insists that its not about the earth being literally flatened (though this is what the word in usage ماهدون basically means) but that its looks like that from the prospective of human eye, fine, but the same way u have no right to insist that the previous passage means anything more than the sky being broad to the human eye. Dont just selectively change prospective in the next verse!

Winter deludes himself he understands his book better then anyone 

It's a thing you will quickly learn

(August 9, 2020 at 8:36 am)Apistos Wrote:

Quote:The Quran states explicitly in this verse that the universe is expanding:

and the word at the end of the verse موسعون tramslated into "expanders" could also mean "broadeners" or simply "Rich and capable". The last is the one chosen by most Muslim interpreter, having nothing to do with expanding the heaven.

I'm very skeptical of this interpretation. What source(s) are you getting this from? As someone who is fluent in Arabic, this is the first I hear of "wase3" and its derivatives having to do with richness and capability.

Personally, I suspect the verse is based on similar verses stated in the Old Testament.

That's exactly where they got it, which wouldn't be an improvement. The cosmological views of the authors of the OT were pretty hilarious.