They deny it even now, they simply think that our punishment will be deferred and carried out by an even more monstrously competent executioner. Incidentally, that this is the good and godly way to run a universe.

(January 6, 2021 at 5:35 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote:

(January 5, 2021 at 5:37 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
 
Our first allegiance is to our countries.
 
Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.
 
Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?
 
Negative discrimination without a just cause is what Yahweh admits to doing in Job 2;3., when he allowed Satan to move him to sin against Job.
 
Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.
 
Regards
DL

Why is our first allegiance to our country? What if you live in a country that does terrible things to its citizens?
I have never understood the idea of being "proud" to belong to particular country, I am British but that is just an accident of birth I have done nothing to achieve that state so how can I be proud of it? (I regard many things in Britain to good and sensible, others are just silly, I suspect that will apply to most countries)

As we progress and grow, we go from family allegiance to that of community and country. 

Security is usually our number one consideration and the best form of that is in our countries, their police and military.

Regards
DL

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(January 6, 2021 at 12:43 pm)brewer Wrote:

(January 5, 2021 at 5:37 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Are religions preaching traitors,.........no.

Are religious practicing traitors,.........no.

At most those practicing might be criminal. Depending on the community probably socially undesirable.

Yet they are all ignored by our law makers.

If our schools dared to do what religious liars are doing, we would act differently.

Regards
DL

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(January 6, 2021 at 4:30 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(January 5, 2021 at 5:37 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
 
Our first allegiance is to our countries.
 
Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.
 
Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?
 
Negative discrimination without a just cause is what Yahweh admits to doing in Job 2;3., when he allowed Satan to move him to sin against Job.
 
Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.
 
Regards
DL

I think the notion that our first allegiance is to our country is every last bit as throughly morally bankrupt as the notion that we own some allegiance to some contrived god or “savior”.

Yet you shelter under the security it provides you and yours.

Disingenuous that.

Regards
DL

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(January 8, 2021 at 5:45 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: They deny it even now, they simply think that our punishment will be deferred and carried out by an even more monstrously competent executioner.  Incidentally, that this is the good and godly way to run a universe.

It is hard to get worse than Yahweh, but Jesus and his Armageddon genocide might be made into a sequel to Noah.

Regards
DL

Isn't that the same sentiment expressed in the opposite direction? If there's any value to having the kind of allegiance to country that you're talking about - it's probably still not the case that everyone needs to have it, or that it would be good if we did, or that there's any moral responsibility to, or that there's any moral issue with benefitting from what others..of their own volition...will do, that you might not.

Realistically, clearing away all the shit - in a hypothetical conflict of interest between a religion and a country - a person might even be loyal first to country and downright detest religion... and still prefer to let religion run rampant, rather than the state. If that's the choice presented. Either these religious assholes get their way, or the state cracks their heads. Perhaps they think that the state is a more effective agent of misery, for example.

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-It might be worth pointing out that gods are suspiciously incapable of effectual action outside of their attachment to "and country".

(January 8, 2021 at 5:40 pm)Greatest I am Wrote:

(January 5, 2021 at 6:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: No, religions that preach inequality are not necessarily traitors to their countries.

My first loyalty is manifestly NOT to my country.

I’d be uncomfortable if religious people were to be discouraged from expressing their views freely and openly. But I disagree that that’s where things are headed.

I think you can ask religious groups whatever you want, I don’t think they should be coerced into giving you the answers you’re looking for.

The Job story is allegorical.

What other forms of free speech would you like to curtail?

Boru

The speech of those who advocate for an anti-blasphemy law to end criticism of the vile gods.

The mainstream religions have used inquisitions and jihads to grow due to lack of decent moral tenets.

They do not, or at least did not believe in freedom of speech as they denied it to us for 1,000 years of Dark Ages.

Religions still would silence truth, as evidenced by their demonstrable lies.

Regards
DL

I never said religious oppression was good or admirable or acceptable. What you asked was are religions that advocate things that are misogynistic or anti-gay treasonous. The answer is ‘not necessarily’. Suppose a country subjugates women and outlaws homosexuality. A religion that preaches in favour of those things would be patriotic, not treasonous.

Boru

(January 8, 2021 at 5:46 pm)Greatest I am Wrote:

(January 6, 2021 at 12:43 pm)brewer Wrote: Are religions preaching traitors,.........no.

Are religious practicing traitors,.........no.

At most those practicing might be criminal. Depending on the community probably socially undesirable.

Yet they are all ignored by our law makers.

If our schools dared to do what religious liars are doing, we would act differently.

Regards
DL

Lets start by getting them to pay taxes. Once that's done people can consider additional corrections.

No further correction would be required. Practically and realistically, that would be one of the most suppressive things that could be done to christianity in america.

(January 8, 2021 at 5:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Isn't that the same sentiment expressed in the opposite direction?  If there's any value to having the kind of allegiance to country that you're talking about - it's probably still not the case that everyone needs to have it, or that it would be good if we did, or that there's any moral responsibility to, or that there's any moral issue with benefitting from what others..of their own volition...will do, that you might not.

Realistically, clearing away all the shit - in a hypothetical conflict of interest between a religion and a country - a person might even be loyal first to country and downright detest religion... and still prefer to let religion run rampant, rather than the state.  If that's the choice presented.  Either these religious assholes get their way, or the state cracks their heads.  Perhaps they think that the state is a more effective agent of misery, for example.

---

-It might be worth pointing out that gods are suspiciously incapable of effectual action outside of their attachment to "and country".

Not having an allegiance to what Americans swear so often to being alleged with, seems rather like Christian hypocrisy.  Oh well. You are truly a Christian nation.

I do not see what you mean with your first. I see both my statements as having the same disrespect for both entities.

Regards
DL

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(January 8, 2021 at 7:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(January 8, 2021 at 5:40 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: The speech of those who advocate for an anti-blasphemy law to end criticism of the vile gods.

The mainstream religions have used inquisitions and jihads to grow due to lack of decent moral tenets.

They do not, or at least did not believe in freedom of speech as they denied it to us for 1,000 years of Dark Ages.

Religions still would silence truth, as evidenced by their demonstrable lies.

Regards
DL

I never said religious oppression was good or admirable or acceptable. What you asked was are religions that advocate things that are misogynistic or anti-gay treasonous. The answer is ‘not necessarily’. Suppose a country subjugates women and outlaws homosexuality. A religion that preaches in favour of those things would be patriotic, not treasonous.

Boru

More like patriotic immoral a holes, but less treasonous for sure, as they are rightfully preaching the law of the land.

Reversing the situation does not change the fact that what is basically an entertainment industry selling imaginary characters and  preaching against common law.

They are traitors to the country.

Regards
DL

I'm sure that there are many perfectly american and very unchristian ways to be a hypocrite.

Even so, it's not clear how benefitting from something that you would not do or have some principled disagreement with, is one of them. That's an awfully low bar for hypocrisy, imo. Plucking our own chickens and digging our own turnips comes to mind. People have disagreements as to whether and how-if we should do those things. That doesn't mean that every bite of campbells stew is hypocrisy. Or, if it does..again, hypocrisy is a small thing.

That a person may benefit from the nation they were born to by chance - and have credible reservations about the concept of and culture of nations and nationalism and patriotism, is a hypocrite, if it's true, is true in the same sense that soup is hypocrisy.

(January 8, 2021 at 7:53 pm)brewer Wrote:

(January 8, 2021 at 5:46 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Yet they are all ignored by our law makers.

If our schools dared to do what religious liars are doing, we would act differently.

Regards
DL

Lets start by getting them to pay taxes. Once that's done people can consider additional corrections.

Money is not as important as the satanic moral sense they teach to their children.

I agree that religions should not be funded by atheist dollars.

I think it disgusting that atheists and non-believers have been subsidizing religions that atheists have no use for.

Regards
DL

(January 9, 2021 at 11:40 am)Greatest I am Wrote:

(January 8, 2021 at 5:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Isn't that the same sentiment expressed in the opposite direction?  If there's any value to having the kind of allegiance to country that you're talking about - it's probably still not the case that everyone needs to have it, or that it would be good if we did, or that there's any moral responsibility to, or that there's any moral issue with benefitting from what others..of their own volition...will do, that you might not.

Realistically, clearing away all the shit - in a hypothetical conflict of interest between a religion and a country - a person might even be loyal first to country and downright detest religion... and still prefer to let religion run rampant, rather than the state.  If that's the choice presented.  Either these religious assholes get their way, or the state cracks their heads.  Perhaps they think that the state is a more effective agent of misery, for example.

---

-It might be worth pointing out that gods are suspiciously incapable of effectual action outside of their attachment to "and country".

Not having an allegiance to what Americans swear so often to being alleged with, seems rather like Christian hypocrisy.  Oh well. You are truly a Christian nation.

I do not see what you mean with your first. I see both my statements as having the same disrespect for both entities.

Regards
DL

---

(January 8, 2021 at 7:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I never said religious oppression was good or admirable or acceptable. What you asked was are religions that advocate things that are misogynistic or anti-gay treasonous. The answer is ‘not necessarily’. Suppose a country subjugates women and outlaws homosexuality. A religion that preaches in favour of those things would be patriotic, not treasonous.

Boru

More like patriotic immoral a holes, but less treasonous for sure, as they are rightfully preaching the law of the land.

Reversing the situation does not change the fact that what is basically an entertainment industry selling imaginary characters and  preaching against common law.

They are traitors to the country.

Regards
DL

Nonsense. Patriotism is an extremely situational notion. If your preaching agrees with the common law of your country, you can't possibly be a traitor to that country.

Boru