Those so-called atheists are merely forsaking reason for a delusional comfort.

I think the author might need some cheese.

(March 28, 2021 at 10:20 am)brewer Wrote: I think the author might need some cheese.

What kind?

(March 28, 2021 at 10:23 am)Eleven Wrote:

(March 28, 2021 at 10:20 am)brewer Wrote: I think the author might need some cheese.

What kind?

The one that goes with whine.

You might need the kind that floats.

Never heard of this bloke, but he’s clearly not an atheist. Not a full-blown believer, either, but not an atheist.

Boru

The whole "... and I was an atheist." Sthick is getting old, and fast.

So the first thing this guy says:

Quote:Many of us yearn for meaning. But in our individualistic, secular society we lack even the flimsiest of narratives to guide us

Yeah. The problem there is not secular society. The problem is thinking we "lack" narratives to guide us. Seeking guidance from societal narratives is a BAD thing.

Seek guidance from people you know, people who know your situation, and care about you. Seek guidance from the great intellectual minds (ancient and modern) who have done some thinking about life and have shared valuable wisdom. But never seek guidance from societal narratives. That's my policy anyway.

The cool thing about secularized societies is that we don't have some narrative jammed down our throats. Flimsy narratives are much preferred to substantial ones.

I think the author does some okay critiquing of "individualistic" society. And I think he's yearning for a greater sense of community-- which is fine. But I think he conflates things a bit. What does this really have to do with secularism?

Quote:Three years ago, Anthony Costello – a former director of maternal and child health at the World Health Organization – published a book titled The Social Edge, focused on the so-called “sympathy groups” that sit between the state and the individual. “Religious or therapy groups have always offered solace and peace and relaxation and friendship,” he wrote. “They help us in our spiritual quest for meaning and wellbeing.” Church groups, choirs, sport and dance clubs, he went on, “bring harmony and relaxation to tired minds” and give people “a greater sense of being alive”.

People have found community in churches? Sure. They always have. But atheists can go to Quaker meetings or Unitarian Churches, sing songs with people, experience fellowship etc. with people who are by-and-large nonbelievers. Just gotta get up Sunday morning and go.

I don't really see how secular society is to blame for exacerbating feelings of isolation brought about by Covid. Covid obstructed our everyday social intercourse, and has left some of us feeling super lonely. If the author yearns for meaning, he should be grateful he has the freedom to seek it himself. Difficult as it might be to find one's own meaning... the fruits of such a labor are far better than one obtains from having meaning handed to you by religious society or social forces in general.

(March 28, 2021 at 1:50 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: The cool thing about secularized societies is that we don't have some narrative jammed down our throats. Flimsy narratives are much preferred to substantial ones.

I do think there are a number of secular narratives that are widespread. Whether we should consider these "jammed down our throats," or "substantial" I'm not sure.

One popular narrative is that the current of history moves toward a less religious society, with the superstition of religion dropping away to reveal scientific truth.

In the US of course there's the whole narrative about America being a progressive force for good in the world. 

And a common one is that as tech gets better the world is improved. 

The truth of each of these is debatable. What's important I think is that these narratives are accepted as fact by many people.

(March 28, 2021 at 3:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote:

(March 28, 2021 at 1:50 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: The cool thing about secularized societies is that we don't have some narrative jammed down our throats. Flimsy narratives are much preferred to substantial ones.

(March 28, 2021 at 3:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: I do think there are a number of secular narratives that are widespread.

Really? name them. Describe them.

(March 28, 2021 at 3:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: Whether we should consider these "jammed down our throats," or "substantial" I'm not sure.

Well, if you regard facts as being stuffing reality down your throat, go ahead. Reality doesn't care and simply keeps on being reality regardless of your personal preferences, whatever those might be.

(March 28, 2021 at 3:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: One popular narrative is that the current of history moves toward a less religious society,

That is not a narrative, that is history. I.E. that has and is observably happening as we speak

(March 28, 2021 at 3:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: with the superstition of religion dropping away to reveal scientific truth.

That is not how science works. That is not how anything works.

(March 28, 2021 at 3:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: In the US of course there's the whole narrative about America being a progressive force for good in the world. 

Wrong on so many levels.

(March 28, 2021 at 3:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: And a common one is that as tech gets better the world is improved.

Life expectancy at the time of jebus? 30-40 at a stretch. Life expectancy today? 80-90. Why,  because "tech" has enabled that.

(March 28, 2021 at 3:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: The truth of each of these is debatable.

BS. Are you really going to sit there and claim that the more than doubling of life expectancy is somehow NOT due to technology? Are you really going to claim that the smart phone or whatever device you happen to to use is weirdly not a result of technology? Well, off you go to your "get out of jail" taqtique. Tell us all what Plato, Aristotle, Aquinus and Augustine of Hippo had to say about smart phones.

(March 28, 2021 at 3:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: What's important I think is that these narratives are accepted as fact by many people.

Wrong again. Those are not "accepted as facts". Those are facts. Or are you shaping up to make the claim that human life expectancy has not more than doubled because of science, but because of some imaginary increase in the lurv of jebus.