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A disgraceful god
#51
RE: A disgraceful god
A woman who's husband abuses her also has the right to walk away, but that doesn't mean her husband isn't going to unreasonably punish her for doing so.
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#52
RE: A disgraceful god
(May 2, 2021 at 3:57 pm)edial Wrote:
(May 2, 2021 at 3:51 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Because the Exodus story is just that - a story which shows that if you do not love God he will make things rough for you (at the very least).

If you really ‘teach the Bible’ you should be familiar with the verse in Deuteronomy that explicitly says that God loves only those who love him back. This is not a tenable description  of s being who the Bible describes as love itself. 

Boru
But the New Testament expands on the fact of the love of God. Christ said that God loved the world and gave his son (meaning Christ) for the entire world.
People who hate God, walk away from God. And people have the right to do so. 

Thanks.
Ed

Then how can you square the Biblical phrase ‘God is love’ with God’s stated ability to hate?

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#53
RE: A disgraceful god
(May 2, 2021 at 3:45 pm)edial Wrote: That is allowing the natural sins of the fathers to naturally travel into their children. Let's say the father (or grandfather) is an alcoholic or drug addict, the tendency for such addictions is stronger in the children born from such parents. The same thing can be applied to any sin, such as hatred, violence, thievery and such. But to those who do want to follow God, he will extend that blessed qualities of his parents upon many, many generations.
Thanks,
Ed

Take your hate filled nonsense elsewhere, holy man.

We do not visit the iniquities of wrongdoers on their innocent offspring, unlike your spiteful god. Oh wait, he doesn't either, because he's fictional. It's just you trying to blame the victims to excuse the fact that you refuse to help them.
The great appear great because we are on our knees. Let us rise!
Big James
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#54
RE: A disgraceful god
(May 2, 2021 at 3:55 pm)Eleven Wrote: There is no bias on behalf of the atheist, for atheism is just the lack of a belief in a deity that has not been proven to exist.

The theist is chock full of bias, because his emotional need for a deity to exist outweighs reason most every time.

But lack of belief does not give strong negative feelings to that what one does not believe in.
Lack of belief is a person who does not pay attention to that what he does not believe in.
Why get angry at something you do not believe in?
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#55
RE: A disgraceful god
(May 2, 2021 at 3:57 pm)edial Wrote: But the New Testament expands on the fact of the love of God. Christ said that God loved the world and gave his son (meaning Christ) for the entire world.
People who hate God, walk away from God. And people have the right to do so. 

Thanks.
Ed

Oh yes, going to sleep for three days after a punishment that wouldn't have happened in reality is such a big sacrifice. Sign me up.


The great appear great because we are on our knees. Let us rise!
Big James
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#56
RE: A disgraceful god
(May 2, 2021 at 3:58 pm)Eleven Wrote: A woman who's husband abuses her also has the right to walk away, but that doesn't mean her husband isn't going to unreasonably punish her for doing so.

But God does not abuse anyone. People abuse people.
And those who walk away from God choose him not to help them.
People have the freedom of choice.

(May 2, 2021 at 3:59 pm)Nomad Wrote:
(May 2, 2021 at 3:45 pm)edial Wrote: That is allowing the natural sins of the fathers to naturally travel into their children. Let's say the father (or grandfather) is an alcoholic or drug addict, the tendency for such addictions is stronger in the children born from such parents. The same thing can be applied to any sin, such as hatred, violence, thievery and such. But to those who do want to follow God, he will extend that blessed qualities of his parents upon many, many generations.
Thanks,
Ed

Take your hate filled nonsense elsewhere, holy man.

We do not visit the iniquities of wrongdoers on their innocent offspring, unlike your spiteful god.  Oh wait, he doesn't either, because he's fictional.  It's just you trying to blame the victims to excuse the fact that you refuse to help them.
Nobody blames the victims. I myself was a victim. 
People have problems and everyone needs help. 
The transmission of negative qualities from generation to generation happens to all to some degree.
But if people want help, God can help, so they turn to God.

(May 2, 2021 at 4:03 pm)Nomad Wrote:
(May 2, 2021 at 3:57 pm)edial Wrote: But the New Testament expands on the fact of the love of God. Christ said that God loved the world and gave his son (meaning Christ) for the entire world.
People who hate God, walk away from God. And people have the right to do so. 

Thanks.
Ed

Oh yes, going to sleep for three days after a punishment that wouldn't have happened in reality is such a big sacrifice.  Sign me up.


And people choose to believe this to justify that what they do not want to hear. 
People do not want to hear that God loves them. 
People have a freedom of choice, and this is what they choose.

Thanks,
Ed
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#57
RE: A disgraceful god
(May 2, 2021 at 4:04 pm)edial Wrote: But God does not abuse anyone. People abuse people.
And those who walk away from God choose him not to help them.
People have the freedom of choice.

I don't think people here think God abuses anyone. But (historically speaking) people have done some pretty bad things in God's name. But of course this was called "good" and "justified" by the perpetrators of such acts.

If you put your head into an atheist's mindset for a moment, you'll see that a lot of what appears justified or good to a theist can appear downright immoral to an atheist.
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#58
RE: A disgraceful god
I meant that god punishes people.

Most theists are of the belief that god punishes non-believers by denying them access to heaven after death. Instead, sending them to hell.
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#59
RE: A disgraceful god
(May 2, 2021 at 3:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(May 2, 2021 at 3:57 pm)edial Wrote: But the New Testament expands on the fact of the love of God. Christ said that God loved the world and gave his son (meaning Christ) for the entire world.
People who hate God, walk away from God. And people have the right to do so. 

Thanks.
Ed

Then how can you square the Biblical phrase ‘God is love’ with God’s stated ability to hate?

Boru
'God is love' refers to God's essence as love, not his ability.
Throughout the Bible God hates sin.
But in the New Testament there is a distinction between hating sin from hating a sinner.
There is no longer hating a sinner in the NT.

In the Old Testament it states that God hates sinners (meaning real sinners, not just the everyday drunks or whatnot).
Then, after all the sins of the world were paid for by the sacrificial blood of Christ, there is not even one instance in the New Testament that God hates anyone. 

Thanks,
Ed

(May 2, 2021 at 4:19 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(May 2, 2021 at 4:04 pm)edial Wrote: But God does not abuse anyone. People abuse people.
And those who walk away from God choose him not to help them.
People have the freedom of choice.

I don't think people here think God abuses anyone. But (historically speaking) people have done some pretty bad things in God's name. But of course this was called "good" and "justified" by the perpetrators of such acts.

If you put your head into an atheist's mindset for a moment, you'll see that a lot of what appears justified or good to a theist can appear downright immoral to an atheist.

There were many wars in God's name and there is much, much corruption among churches ... that however does not change the facts about Christ and God.
And about God abusing people, there was one guy here who said that, I believe. It was just a response to him.
Thanks,
Ed

(May 2, 2021 at 4:19 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(May 2, 2021 at 4:04 pm)edial Wrote: But God does not abuse anyone. People abuse people.
And those who walk away from God choose him not to help them.
People have the freedom of choice.

I don't think people here think God abuses anyone. But (historically speaking) people have done some pretty bad things in God's name. But of course this was called "good" and "justified" by the perpetrators of such acts.

If you put your head into an atheist's mindset for a moment, you'll see that a lot of what appears justified or good to a theist can appear downright immoral to an atheist.

(My posts are jumping out of sequence sometimes ... still getting used to vBulletin ... reposting)
There were many wars in God's name and there is much, much corruption among churches ... that however does not change the facts about Christ and God.
And about God abusing people, there was one guy here who said that, I believe. It was just a response to him ... but I see now, he corrected it). 
Thanks,
Ed

(May 2, 2021 at 4:25 pm)Eleven Wrote: I meant that god punishes people.

Most theists are of the belief that god punishes non-believers by denying them access to heaven after death. Instead, sending them to hell.

There is no word 'hell' in Greek or Hebrew. It is a made up word.
There is an underworld called Hades. Every culture and nationality has a type of an underworld where people go to after they die.
Egyptians, Irish, Jews, anyone.

In the underworld there are levels, some say circles, where people would live. If you lived a life of a great sinner, you go lower.
The environment in the lower levels is bad.
But if you lived an average life, you go to the higher level of the Underworld and live there.
Then there is a Judgment Day, but that's another story.

Heaven was always closed to everyone because everyone sinned. And Heaven is only for holy people, of which there were none.
When Christ came he opened Heaven to those who want to follow him.

Looks like I cannot post no more ...
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#60
RE: A disgraceful god
(May 2, 2021 at 4:28 pm)edial Wrote: There were many wars in God's name and there is much, much corruption among churches ... that however does not change the facts about Christ and God.
And about God abusing people, there was one guy here who said that, I believe. It was just a response to him ... but I see now, he corrected it). 
Thanks,
Ed

Sure... I didn't catch that someone here said that and that you were responding to his statement...

I don't think you can boil all the disturbing things that have been done in the name of religion down to "corruption." Sometimes, sure. But it is arguable that some atrocities were carried out by good people who thought they were doing good things.
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