(November 4, 2011 at 3:54 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(November 3, 2011 at 9:45 pm)Phaedra Wrote: Quite the contrary, actually.

Why is that?

I for one wanted those of you who believe in hell and eternal punishment to realize that the entire concept is based on vindictive hatred and cruelty, re-examine your thoughts on it, and reject it completely. OR, at the very least, inform us that you do not believe that such a fate awaits our sweet grannies because your God is loving and welcomes everyone who lived a life of kindness, compassion, and love into heaven regardless of whether or not they believed in him (which is what I believed when I was a Christian).


You know...wishful thinking.

That's what happens when faith is more important than good works.

Quote:Who said anything about fairy tales?

Sorry, son but your dead jewish carpenter coming back to life, flying off to heaven and coming back for you some time or other to bring your sorry ass to fucking "heaven" is a fairy tale of the first magnitude.

Unless you have evidence.

Which you don't.

(November 4, 2011 at 10:18 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Who said anything about fairy tales?

Sorry, son but your dead jewish carpenter coming back to life, flying off to heaven and coming back for you some time or other to bring your sorry ass to fucking "heaven" is a fairy tale of the first magnitude.

Unless you have evidence.

Which you don't.

C'mon!
The breadcrumbs were eaten by the birds!
Everybody knows that!

(November 4, 2011 at 9:41 pm)Phaedra Wrote: I for one wanted those of you who believe in hell and eternal punishment to realize that the entire concept is based on vindictive hatred and cruelty, re-examine your thoughts on it, and reject it completely. OR, at the very least, inform us that you do not believe that such a fate awaits our sweet grannies because your God is loving and welcomes everyone who lived a life of kindness, compassion, and love into heaven regardless of whether or not they believed in him (which is what I believed when I was a Christian).

If left to their own nature there would be no such thing as a “sweet granny”, they are only sweet because of the common grace granted to them by God. So they cannot lean on the good works that God has helped them do to save themselves from God’s perfect justice. The God of scripture is perfectly loving but also perfectly just; if someone was allowed into heaven without Christ atoning for them then God would no longer be perfectly just. I find it interesting though that you appeal to justice but given your view of the world my sweet granny gets the same justice as Joseph Stalin, which is none. My granny dies and is gone forever, Stalin commits atrocity after atrocity and dies and is gone forever. Where is the justice in that system?

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(November 4, 2011 at 9:47 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: That's what happens when faith is more important than good works.

Good works are a result of genuine faith, which is a gift from God.

(November 4, 2011 at 10:18 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Sorry, son but your dead jewish carpenter coming back to life, flying off to heaven and coming back for you some time or other to bring your sorry ass to fucking "heaven" is a fairy tale of the first magnitude.

Unless you have evidence.

Which you don't.

Actually asserting Christianity is a fairy tale is a positive assertion which would require evidence, do you have any?

It is a fairy tale because YOU have no evidence to indicate that it anything other than myth. And pretty shitty myth at that by Greco-Roman standards.

I'll wait for you to come up with real evidence but I will not hold my breath.

Wait, granny is sweet because of god? What if granny is evil? Is that God's doing too? If granny doesn't believe in god, then why would god grant her grace?

(November 7, 2011 at 8:22 pm)Minimalist Wrote: It is a fairy tale because YOU have no evidence to indicate that it anything other than myth. And pretty shitty myth at that by Greco-Roman standards.

Again, this is a positive statement made by you, where is your evidence to back it up?

Quote: I'll wait for you to come up with real evidence but I will not hold my breath.

Your irrationality is all the evidence I need.

(November 7, 2011 at 8:24 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Wait, granny is sweet because of god?

Yes.

Quote: What if granny is evil? Is that God's doing too?

God removed his restraining grace from granny allowing her to do as her sinful nature wants. So even though God ordains those events to occur in order to achieve a grater purpose He does not do so in a way that He is the one morally responsible for their occurrence because common grace is not obligated.

Quote: If granny doesn't believe in god, then why would god grant her grace?

Well it could be for numerous reasons, but one would be because He is a loving God who gives everyone better than they ultimately deserve which is made possible by Christ’s work

So god ordains things to happen but is not morally responsible for them?

SW,

I think the reason most atheists don't get moral standards and personal accountability, is because they've seen personal accountability thrown out of the window by most Christians in their experience. You know the type, blame God for everything, rely on him for everything. I think I can see their frustrations.

Allowing for the opportunity for something to happen is not the same as encouraging it to happen, or being accountable for those who do those things. Do you charge the city of Las Vegas when a man hire's a prostitute on the strip? The city knows it happens, and could put an absolute end to all of it, but it is in no way responsible for the actions of every individual within it's JURISDICTION or creative control.