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Why I can't take the Gospels seriously.
#1
Why I can't take the Gospels seriously.
To take just one example (out of many), I believe that the story of Barabbas, which is common to all four Gospels, to be pure fiction:

Wikipedia -- Barabbas

I think that what the story tells Us, some 2,000 years later, is that all four Gospels were written post-70 AD, after the future emperor Titus had laid waste to the city of Jerusalem, and the fledgling Christian community wanted to frame its new religion as being friendly to the Romans, the victors, and hostile to the losers, the Jews.  As such, the growing and embellishing tales of the historical Jesus were continuing to evolve, which oddly, included the account of a fictitious individual (more oddly, enough, with the first name "Jesus") whom Pilate pardoned to appease the Jewish mob, who became guilty of the "crime" of deicide for having murdered the Son of God.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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#2
RE: Why I can't take the Gospels seriously.
Oh camon, ya got to love suicidal pigs.

And feeding thousands with a few fish tacos, brilliant!

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#3
RE: Why I can't take the Gospels seriously.
As the Wiki article suggests, this story makes no sense as history. Plus, the name of the bandit is literally, "Jesus, son of God". It sounds like some stories got mixed together.
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#4
RE: Why I can't take the Gospels seriously.
I don’t take the Gospels seriously because most of the characters are thoroughly unlikable people. Wouldn’t have ‘em in me house.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#5
RE: Why I can't take the Gospels seriously.
(June 8, 2021 at 6:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I don’t take the Gospels seriously because most of the characters are thoroughly unlikable people. Wouldn’t have ‘em in me house.

Boru

Not to mention stinky, probably.
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#6
RE: Why I can't take the Gospels seriously.
(June 8, 2021 at 3:52 pm)Jehanne Wrote: I think that what the story tells Us, some 2,000 years later, is that all four Gospels were written post-70 AD, after the future emperor Titus had laid waste to the city of Jerusalem, and the fledgling Christian community wanted to frame its new religion as being friendly to the Romans, the victors, and hostile to the losers, the Jews.

Maybe to appease the Romans but maybe Mr. Barabbas was there from the beginning of creating the mythical Jesus, and mythmakers took the symbolism of the two goats on Yom Kippur and turned it into Jesus and Barabbas.

From the Wikipedia

Quote:In the Bible, a scapegoat is one of two kid goats. As a pair, one goat was sacrificed (not a scapegoat) and the living “scapegoat” was released into the wilderness, taking with it all sins and impurities. The concept first appears in Leviticus, in which a goat is designated to be cast into the desert to carry away the sins of the community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat

(June 8, 2021 at 3:52 pm)Jehanne Wrote: To take just one example (out of many),

Everything in the Gospels is either invented or folklore or too impossible to have happened, so why do some people still insist that there was some historical Jesus?

The only historical figure that at least some small part of the Gospels was based on was Jesus ben Ananias, so maybe he was a "historical Jesus"?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#7
RE: Why I can't take the Gospels seriously.
Historical Jesus taught a few classes.  Should have put more into his writing.  Got caught with weed.  And that was it.  It's all right there in the Gospels.
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#8
RE: Why I can't take the Gospels seriously.
(June 8, 2021 at 11:28 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Everything in the Gospels is either invented or folklore or too impossible to have happened, so why do some people still insist that there was some historical Jesus?

The only historical figure that at least some small part of the Gospels was based on was Jesus ben Ananias, so maybe he was a "historical Jesus"?
Mostly because the core story of an itinerant rabbi who may or may not have been named Jesus and preached many of the same things Jesus preached and perhaps ended up pissing off the Romans enough to give him a drawn-out death by crucifixion is plausible enough to have perhaps been real?
I was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

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#9
RE: Why I can't take the Gospels seriously.
(June 8, 2021 at 11:54 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Mostly because the core story of an itinerant rabbi who may or may not have been named Jesus and preached many of the same things Jesus preached and perhaps ended up pissing off the Romans enough to give him a drawn-out death by crucifixion is plausible enough to have perhaps been real?

But did Jesus in the Gospels piss off Romans? It seems he pissed off Jews.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#10
RE: Why I can't take the Gospels seriously.
(June 9, 2021 at 12:31 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(June 8, 2021 at 11:54 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Mostly because the core story of an itinerant rabbi who may or may not have been named Jesus and preached many of the same things Jesus preached and perhaps ended up pissing off the Romans enough to give him a drawn-out death by crucifixion is plausible enough to have perhaps been real?

But did Jesus in the Gospels piss off Romans? It seems he pissed off Jews.

If Jesus was crucified in reality, it would have to be by the Romans. Judaism has some very stringent rules for capital punishment, and, the fact that there's a mess of rules so convoluted that there was something seen as seriously wrong with a court that passed a death sentence once in seventy years aside, there were exactly four methods of execution sanctioned by Jewish tradition: stoning, burning (with molten lead in the mouth), beheading, and strangling. While crucifixion might be considered strangulation of a sort, outside of the Gospels, there are ZERO confirmed cases of its use by the Jews, and is well-documented as a Roman punishment. What's more, there's a strong taboo against blood in Judaism (remember how many rules against touching blood there are in the Torah?), and notice how, even in the Gospels, the crucifixion of Jesus is actually bloodier than the process usually is, given that (in defiance of usual practice) it's combined with flogging and, instead of breaking a knee, a centurion slices into his chest.

Even if the core of the story is plausible enough, it is pretty obvious to anyone who knows the history that the Evangelists did fudge quite a few of the details in an attempt to appease Rome.
I was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

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