(August 4, 2021 at 4:12 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: On December 17, 2020, Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican, and 41% as Independent.

Fuck the two party system.

It' s time to illegalize such blatant grabs at holding power.

I've seen very similar numbers myself.  I think it represents the fact that voters are not as extreme as the parties.  Those that identify as independent are actually the swing vote.  They mostly vote D or R, but could swing from one cycle to another.  Making political parties illegal is probably not constitutional, so that wouldn't work.  We've always had progressives and conservatives and they are always battling.

I should also point out that during the party flip you mentioned, the Democratic Party itself didn't change so much as all the racists fled the party and went to the GOP because the Democratic party was more progressive on civil rights.  That hasn't always been the case.  In the early 20th century, the GOP was pretty progressive, and don't forget it's first POTUS was Abe Lincoln, who was an extremist progressive.

(August 4, 2021 at 8:04 pm)Spongebob Wrote:

(August 4, 2021 at 4:12 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: On December 17, 2020, Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican, and 41% as Independent.

Fuck the two party system.

It' s time to illegalize such blatant grabs at holding power.

I've seen very similar numbers myself.  I think it represents the fact that voters are not as extreme as the parties.  Those that identify as independent are actually the swing vote.  They mostly vote D or R, but could swing from one cycle to another.  Making political parties illegal is probably not constitutional, so that wouldn't work.  We've always had progressives and conservatives and they are always battling.

I should also point out that during the party flip you mentioned, the Democratic Party itself didn't change so much as all the racists fled the party and went to the GOP because the Democratic party was more progressive on civil rights.  That hasn't always been the case.  In the early 20th century, the GOP was pretty progressive, and don't forget it's first POTUS was Abe Lincoln, who was an extremist progressive.

Not to mention the massive legal hurdles of making political parties illegal

The two party system is not the problem. Our country has survived for over 200 years with the same system. Extreme politics is a problem and can cause severe rifts in society, note the election of 1860. But isn't always completely bad. If Lincoln hadn't been elected in 1860, the US could have staggered on for another half century without really dealing with slavery, possibly even longer. It was extremely painful but the rift ended the worst policy on the planet at the time. That is how the human race has inched forward over the millennia. We have, through countless cultural experiments, slowly evolved our societies from a point where we routinely murdered one another for the sake of invisible spirits to the point where we get genuinely offended when someone is called an offensive name. That's progress. It hasn't always been forward or constant; we often experience centuries of backward movement. But a lot has been learned along the way and it may take another 100,000 years or more to reach the final plateau, if we can keep from destroying everything. Our generation certainly won't see the end point. We just hope we leave the place in better shape than how we found it, but even that isn't guaranteed.

The dems knew they'd lose the south in advance and still did it, giving lie to the idea that all politicans only do whatever they do because they believe it will get them more votes, since Biker mentioned it and all.  

As for lincoln the extremist progressive in a progressive gop...that's probably modern mythmaking.  Lincoln was a moderate, at best - and consider what that means for the rest of his party if he was "the most progressive".  Whatever progressive element existed within the historic GOP was gone by 1912.

The dems knew they'd lose the south...and they didn't even try to keep those southerners from voting.  Compare that with the gop response to having lost the entire country more than three decades ago.  The republican party no longer believes in the united states or the validity of it's form of government.  They're christo-fascists on a mission to secure minority control over the majority in perpetuity.

If your strategy is: let's throw roadblocks in front of democracy, you have to admit you're losing the battle.

Of course the two party system is the problem. Systematic party waffling leads to socio-economic regression that never has a chance at proper progression.

^
Would, say, a three party system be better, though?

(August 5, 2021 at 3:50 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: ^
Would, say, a three party system be better, though?

A "no party" system would be ideal.

The only downside is idiots would not have the option of pulling a single lever to vote.


Candidates would need to be judged on their history and their stated position on issues.


Vote for the candidate - not the gang..

Candidates are already judged for their positions and people can be as mindlessly dedicated to a person as they can be mindlessly dedicated to a party.

Wouldn' t you be happier sticking your nose up a different ass every once in a while?

Or if not happier at least less fucking miserable?