The biggest downside that is never discussed is the fact ( yes - fact) that the move to electric vehicles will eventually make it impossible for lower income people to own a car. If you don' t see this as a problem then we have to assume you think all poor people should be stuck in an inner city ghetto. That is the only place they can survive. Rural life doesn' t include mass transit.

Why does it make it impossible for the poor to own a car?

Ever price the maintenance?


Go google " what does it cost to replace the batteries in a Chevy Volt"..... They do need it every 5-7 years.

Just the battery is over $8700. No labor.

And NO the price will not go down as production goes up. Production costs will go down - but MATERIAL costs will go up drastically due to the scarcity of the materials.

There will be no cheap cars. The remaining gas vehicles will be snatched up by wealthier people when production of gas powered vehicles stops due to regulation.

(August 15, 2021 at 12:26 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: The biggest downside that is never discussed is the fact ( yes - fact) that the move to electric vehicles will eventually make it impossible for lower income people to own a car. If you don' t see this as a problem then we have to assume you think all poor people should be stuck in an inner city ghetto. That is the only place they can survive. Rural life doesn' t include mass transit.

Why does it make it impossible for the poor to own a car?

Ever price the maintenance?


Go google " what does it cost to replace the batteries in a Chevy Volt"..... They do need it every 5-7 years.

Just the battery is over $8700. No labor.

And NO the price will not go down as production goes up. Production costs will go down - but MATERIAL costs will go up drastically due to the scarcity of the materials.

There will be no cheap cars. The remaining gas vehicles will be snatched up by wealthier people when production of gas powered vehicles stops due to regulation.

GM warrants their electric car batteries for 8 years/100 000 miles (both for defects and scheduled replacement). If you get it replaced every 5 years, you never have to purchase a battery - the car will be out of warranty, but the battery won’t.

Boru

There are others. Where I live, there is plenty of parking, but none of it is assigned. One takes whatever one gets. Thus I (nor any of my neighbours) can have charging points.

(August 15, 2021 at 12:58 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: There are others. Where I live, there is plenty of parking, but none of it is assigned. One takes whatever one gets. Thus I (nor any of my neighbours) can have charging points.

That's a much more significant problem - electric cars won't really take off until there's infrastructure to support them, and no one wants to invest in the infrastructure until there's a lot more electric cars to make use of it.

Boru

The battery replacement issue has not been an issue for me at all. I have an 8 year old leaf with 60K miles on it and the battery health has not degraded in any meaningful way yet. Not to say that it won't, but even factoring in the cost of an eventual battery replacement, the total cost of ownership is substantially lower. I live in an area where electricity is cheap and gas is expensive. YMMV.

$.02/mile in fuel costs and near zero maintenance adds up.

(August 15, 2021 at 1:06 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 15, 2021 at 12:58 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: There are others. Where I live, there is plenty of parking, but none of it is assigned. One takes whatever one gets. Thus I (nor any of my neighbours) can have charging points.

That's a much more significant problem - electric cars won't really take off until there's infrastructure to support them, and no one wants to invest in the infrastructure until there's a lot more electric cars to make use of it.

Boru

Yup. I saw a suggestion that mandatory charging points be installed at every parking space. That might solve the problem, but I can't see who will fund such an effort. I am not even sure the existing electrical infrastructure is sufficient. In fact, it probably isn't. 

Right now, I scored the spot closest to my home, about 20 feet from my kitchen window. That would be workable. If I pop out to the shop for whatever, someone else will grab that. If there are a lot of folks about I might have to street park. Gonna put a charging point there are we?

As I look out my kitchen window, I can see maybe 30-35 cars parked. Imagine the load that would cause if we were all plugged into the grid? And that is merely what I can see from my kitchen window. The local substation would explode.

Technologies will improve, costs will down. That's just how it works.
It might not be tomorrow, but by the time the internal combustion engine is fully abandoned, the alternatives will be completely common place.

You say prices for electric vehicles won't go down as time goes on, the funny thing is that this is already happening:

Quote:The Tesla Model 3 is the hottest EV in the world. But there are plenty of cheaper alternatives. That includes used EVs and a dirt-cheap electric made by a GM joint venture.

According to data from Cox Automotive, the average price of electric cars was $55,600 in 2019 down from $64,300 in 2018.

Still out of reach for most Americans but headed in the right direction.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecroth...-the-rest/

So, the average price of an electric car went down by $8,700 in a single year. Admittedly, the price can't go down that steeply every year, but, it's a very good sign that they might actually be affordable by the time GM phases out gas engines in 2035. Well, when I say affordable, I mean at least somewhat on par with gas cars now, which are, oddly enough, already starting to price themselves out of the market, a situation that got even worse post-COVID.

Of course, even if you're ignoring the price of a new car, electric cars are getting on the used market with prices along the lines of $20k.

(August 15, 2021 at 12:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 15, 2021 at 12:26 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: The biggest downside that is never discussed is the fact ( yes - fact) that the move to electric vehicles will eventually make it impossible for lower income people to own a car. If you don' t see this as a problem then we have to assume you think all poor people should be stuck in an inner city ghetto. That is the only place they can survive. Rural life doesn' t include mass transit.

Why does it make it impossible for the poor to own a car?j ok

Ever price the maintenance?


Go google " what does it cost to replace the batteries in a Chevy Volt"..... They do need it every 5-7 years.

Just the battery is over $8700. No labor.

And NO the price will not go down as production goes up. Production costs will go down - but MATERIAL costs will go up drastically due to the scarcity of the materials.

There will be no cheap cars. The remaining gas vehicles will be snatched up by wealthier people when production of gas powered vehicles stops due to regulation.

GM warrants their electric car batteries for 8 years/100 000 miles (both for defects and scheduled replacement). If you get it replaced every 5 years, you never have to purchase a battery - the car will be out of warranty, but the battery won’t.

Boru

Knock the wax outta your ears mate.

We' re talking the effect on POOR people.

Not those well to do people that can afford a NEW car every couple years. Or EVER.

I for one have NEVER owned a new car and find the possibility rather unlikely.

Let's say I fill up my tank every week and it costs $40 for a full tank. That calculates to $2080 per year; $10,400 over 5 years. There's your new battery and then some!

Oh, an electric cars have inherently less maintenance, too.