(August 25, 2021 at 7:53 am)Ranjr Wrote: I have a hot take on Afghanistan.  It's backed by math!  How can I present this keen insight to the world?  Ooo, look, an atheist forum.

It must be the mark of a true genius.  Time magazine called, they want to name him Man of the Year.

(August 25, 2021 at 7:29 am)Spongebob Wrote: The US wasn't engaged in any open war in the mid east before 2000.  What's your point with this mini history lesson?  How is it relevant to the OP?

The warmongering C.I.A. created that Taliban group by corrupting people from the middle east with religious fearmongering, killing, torturing, brainwashing, money, etc. before 2000 to secretly wage war. The Taliban is an example of what that C.I.A. organization can do before it started openly waging war. Otherwise, elites who own America were secretly waging war on Afghanistan before the year of 2000. My point is to say it wasn't 20 years despite not being relevant towards the O.P.

(August 25, 2021 at 11:11 am)AtheistQuest Wrote:

(August 25, 2021 at 7:29 am)Spongebob Wrote: The US wasn't engaged in any open war in the mid east before 2000.  What's your point with this mini history lesson?  How is it relevant to the OP?

The warmongering C.I.A. created that Taliban group by corrupting people from the middle east with religious fearmongering, killing, torturing, brainwashing, money, etc. before 2000 to secretly wage war. The Taliban is an example of what that C.I.A. organization can do before it started openly waging war. Otherwise, elites who own America were secretly waging war on Afghanistan before the year of 2000. My point is to say it wasn't 20 years despite not being relevant towards the O.P.

Hmmm... I call bullshit.  This is a sock puppet account.

The C.I.A. does a very strategic job at hiding their terrorism to make those Americans stay patriotic in their monstrous military culture that threatens international human rights and progression towards a safer, kinder world. Oil they put into their vehicles would happen because of greedy military terrorism that causes so much bloodshed. Oil that Americans used for their vehicles mostly did not come from peaceful politics. It came from military terrorists invading countries and them importing oil into American soil.

(August 25, 2021 at 11:24 am)AtheistQuest Wrote: The C.I.A. does a very strategic job at hiding their terrorism to make those Americans stay patriotic in their monstrous military culture that threatens international human rights and progression towards a safer, kinder world. Oil they put into their vehicles would happen because of greedy military terrorism that causes so much bloodshed. Oil that Americans used for their vehicles mostly did not come from peaceful politics. It came from military terrorists invading countries and them importing oil into American soil.

Bet you didn't now this:

• The top five sources of U.S. total petroleum (including crude oil) imports by share of total petroleum imports in 2020 were
  
• Canada  52%
  
• Mexico  11%
  
• Russia  7%
  
• Saudi Arabia 7%
  
• Colombia  4%
  

• The top five sources of U.S. crude oil imports by share of total crude oil imports in 2020 were
  
• Canada  61%
  
• Mexico  11%
  
• Saudi Arabia  8%
  
• Colombia  4%
  
• Iraq  3%
  

Source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-...xports.php

(August 25, 2021 at 11:24 am)AtheistQuest Wrote: The C.I.A. does a very strategic job at hiding their terrorism to make those Americans stay patriotic in their monstrous military culture that threatens international human rights and progression towards a safer, kinder world. Oil they put into their vehicles would happen because of greedy military terrorism that causes so much bloodshed. Oil that Americans used for their vehicles mostly did not come from peaceful politics. It came from military terrorists invading countries and them importing oil into American soil.

You came to the right place.  We will fix this problem immediately.  Your work here is done.

(August 25, 2021 at 11:40 am)Spongebob Wrote: Bet you didn't now this:

• The top five sources of U.S. total petroleum (including crude oil) imports by share of total petroleum imports in 2020 were
  
• Canada  52%
  
• Mexico  11%
  
• Russia  7%
  
• Saudi Arabia 7%
  
• Colombia  4%
  

• The top five sources of U.S. crude oil imports by share of total crude oil imports in 2020 were
  
• Canada  61%
  
• Mexico  11%
  
• Saudi Arabia  8%
  
• Colombia  4%
  
• Iraq  3%
  

Source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-...xports.php

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(August 25, 2021 at 11:52 am)Ranjr Wrote: You came to the right place.  We will fix this problem immediately.  Your work here is done.

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I'll just stick this here, Operation Cyclone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

Atheistquest is more right than many thinks.  The fact that the US does not physically get the majority of its oil import from the Middle East in 2020 disguise 3 things;:

1.  The commodity price that the US pays for its oil imports still depends largely the global spot clearing price for crude oil.  Middle East remains the dominant force in setting that price by virtue of the low marginals cost of its oil production, and the excess capacity available from its wells and refineries.  These allow Middle East producers the most latitude to set the global market clearing prices through discretionary production policy and thus set the prices paid by buyers even for oil sourced from elsewhere.    So America may not supply much of its oil domestic oil needs with imports from the Middle East, its influence in the Middle East remains vital to how much it pays for the imports from Canada and elsewhere.

2.  The influence of middle eastern producers are actually in a long term structural decline that began around 2008,  so when the US undertook it rampage through Afghanistan and iraq in 2001, the importance of controlling middle eastern oil to the American economy to American influence on global economy would be even greater than is the case today.

3.  While the US may source much of its domestic oil needs from wells in North and central America,  I strongly suspect the petroleum that fueled its military operational needs in Middle East and Central Asia were not shipped from the same stock that supplied its domestic needs, but we’re sourced directly from more nearby producers in the Middle East.    So availability of these nearby supplies probably made fueling these operation substantially more affordable than would have been the case if it had to ship from North American refineries.

Also, Taliban was founded by a group of religious students who were radicalized by religious schools supported by Pakistan using religious text books that emphasized importance of fundamentalist interpretation of Koran and the role of jihad in Islamic faith. These text books were authored under CIA sponsorship and specifically intended By the CIA to radicalize conservative tribal Afghan youths against the Soviet occupiers.    While CIA in the 1980s may have been abetting a trend,  it’s role in speeding the trend forward, and possibly overcoming hurdles along the way, is not to be underestimated.

(August 26, 2021 at 9:26 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: Atheistquest is more right than many thinks.  The fact that the US does not physically get the majority of its oil import from the Middle East in 2020 disguise 3 things;:

1.  The commodity price that the US pays for its oil imports still depends largely the global spot clearing price for crude oil.  Middle East remains the dominant force in setting that price by virtue of the low marginals cost of its oil production, and the excess capacity available from its wells and refineries.  These allow Middle East producers the most latitude to set the global market clearing prices through discretionary production policy and thus set the prices paid by buyers even for oil sourced from elsewhere.    So America may not supply much of its oil domestic oil needs with imports from the Middle East, its influence in the Middle East remains vital to how much it pays for the imports from Canada and elsewhere.

2.  The influence of middle eastern producers are actually in a long term structural decline that began around 2008,  so when the US undertook it rampage through Afghanistan and iraq in 2001, the importance of controlling middle eastern oil to the American economy to American influence on global economy would be even greater than is the case today.

3.  While the US may source much of its domestic oil needs from wells in North and central America,  I strongly suspect the petroleum that fueled its military operational needs in Middle East and Central Asia were not shipped from the same stock that supplied its domestic needs, but we’re sourced directly from more nearby producers in the Middle East.    So availability of these nearby supplies probably made fueling these operation substantially more affordable than would have been the case if it had to ship from North American refineries.

Also, Taliban was founded by a group of religious students who were radicalized by religious schools supported by Pakistan using religious text books that emphasized importance of fundamentalist interpretation of Koran and the role of jihad in Islamic faith. These text books were authored under CIA sponsorship and specifically intended By the CIA to radicalize conservative tribal Afghan youths against the Soviet occupiers.    While CIA in the 1980s may have been abetting a trend,  it’s role in speeding the trend forward, and possibly overcoming hurdles along the way, is not to be underestimated.

#1 - The vast amount of oil the US has been able to put on the global oil market has created significant downward pressure on the price of oil.  It's the key reason OPEC has been been able to raise its prices as much as it would like.

#2 - In decline, yes, but mostly because of the drop in oil demand & prices in the last decade, which has put a strain on OPEC's ability to control its members.

#3 - That just a special case and not all that relevant to the long term global market.

I need some very strong evidence of this last statement.  So far I haven't found anything to substantiate this and it sounds rather far fetched.  It is true the the CIA partnered with Pakistani agencies to provide training and weapons to Afghans in the 1980's to help drive out the Soviets and that resulted in Islamic terrorist groups forming, which is, if anything, an unfortunate unintended consequence.  I remember news reports of Madrassas in the 1980's where radical Muslims were learning to hate Americans.  Even then this was considered a potential threat to our future.  So it seems highly unlikely that the CIA would have been involved with such a plan.  I don't believe rebels needed Islamic ideals to motivate them to fight the Russians.

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(August 26, 2021 at 12:53 am)AtheistQuest Wrote:

(August 25, 2021 at 11:40 am)Spongebob Wrote: Bet you didn't now this:

• The top five sources of U.S. total petroleum (including crude oil) imports by share of total petroleum imports in 2020 were
  
• Canada  52%
  
• Mexico  11%
  
• Russia  7%
  
• Saudi Arabia 7%
  
• Colombia  4%
  

• The top five sources of U.S. crude oil imports by share of total crude oil imports in 2020 were
  
• Canada  61%
  
• Mexico  11%
  
• Saudi Arabia  8%
  
• Colombia  4%
  
• Iraq  3%
  

Source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-...xports.php

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Why did you just repost this.  The point is that the US does not get a significant supply of oil from OPEC.  In fact the US has been the largest supplier for the last several years.