@Ahriman Emotions are an ancient part of our brain.  I think you could call them instincts; they send signals that are often urgent and acute, prompting immediate action that could have important implications for survival.  However, in modern life, the majority of the time we don't need such extreme warnings, unless you're about to get mugged or hit by a bus, which is rare.  So emotions tend to be exaggerated and our reaction to them can be out of proportion to the reality they represent.  Controlling one's emotions is not about turning them off and becoming emotionless, it's about acknowledging emotions, understanding what the actual situation is, and taking an appropriate response, if any.  That takes patience and practice and it's an extremely rational approach to dealing with one's environment.

A good example is the story Boru told about a guy getting all bent out of shape because a cashier wouldn't accept a 20 cent coupon.  There's absolutely no reason for someone to explode in anger in such a situation, yet that's what happened and it happens all the time.  We see ding dongs assaulting workers at Walmart for asking them to don a mask.  How is that reasonable?  How does that make their life better in any way?  It could land them in jail with assault charges.  Emotions play an important role in our lives, but too often people allow emotions to lead them around like a dog on a leash.

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(September 23, 2021 at 10:00 am)brewer Wrote:

(September 23, 2021 at 8:26 am)Ahriman Wrote: I have zero control over my emotions and the notion that emotions can be controlled is extremely annoying to me. You can't control this shit. Not when the emotions are truly real.

Just what I'd expect you to say. How's that bipolar working for you?

I realize Ahri isn't the most intellectual member on this forum, but if he/she truly does suffer from bipolar, it seems cruel to make light of it.

In one of Jonathan Haidt's books, he likens some aspects of the mind, such as emotions, to riding an elephant. If nobody is riding the elephant, it's just going to go wherever it wants. And if you've never ridden an elephant, and you hop on its back with no harness or anything, no matter how much you kick it or shout at it, it's just going to ignore you and do what it wants. But if you learn over time to give the elephant commands, you can learn what it does and doesn't respond to, and gain some control over the animal's natural instinct to just do what it wants to do. And if you master that skill, you can eventually learn to guide that elephant where you want it to go with efficiency and success. And furthermore, after a time of learning your behavior, the elephant will know what your various prods and kicks mean, and respond more appropriately to them. Emotions are like that. It isn't magic. You have to make an effort, and not expect results right away.

The Chinese say about one form of training your mind, meditation, "A man combs his hair once a day. Why not his heart?"

(September 23, 2021 at 10:05 am)Spongebob Wrote:

(September 23, 2021 at 10:00 am)brewer Wrote: Just what I'd expect you to say. How's that bipolar working for you?

I realize Ahri isn't the most intellectual member on this forum, but if he/she truly does suffer from bipolar, it seems cruel to make light of it.

Then I'm cruel. I don't consider it a good idea to enable people with mental health disorders. "Zero control" in mental health is a statement that I can't let slide.

I am generally an amiable person, it takes a lot to piss me off. But my rage feels very dark and intense, almost like flexing a muscle you haven't used in a long time. My anger is rare and strange, it feels really weird to be angry, uncanny even. I hate feeling that way.

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(September 23, 2021 at 10:18 am)brewer Wrote:

(September 23, 2021 at 10:05 am)Spongebob Wrote: I realize Ahri isn't the most intellectual member on this forum, but if he/she truly does suffer from bipolar, it seems cruel to make light of it.

Then I'm cruel. I don't consider it a good idea to enable people with mental health disorders. "Zero control" in mental health is a statement that I can't let slide.

Why do you care?

(September 23, 2021 at 10:33 am)Ahriman Wrote: I am generally an amiable person, it takes a lot to piss me off. But my rage feels very dark and intense, almost like flexing a muscle you haven't used in a long time. My anger is rare and strange, it feels really weird to be angry, uncanny even. I hate feeling that way.

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That's interesting, but as usual it didn't address one single thing in my post.  Bipolar is a medical condition that usually requires medications to keep under control, so I'm not sure meditation is applicable here.  And I suppose I could understand how you might not comprehend the concept of emotional control.

(September 23, 2021 at 10:33 am)Ahriman Wrote: I am generally an amiable person, it takes a lot to piss me off. But my rage feels very dark and intense, almost like flexing a muscle you haven't used in a long time. My anger is rare and strange, it feels really weird to be angry, uncanny even. I hate feeling that way.

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(September 23, 2021 at 10:18 am)brewer Wrote: Then I'm cruel. I don't consider it a good idea to enable people with mental health disorders. "Zero control" in mental health is a statement that I can't let slide.

Why do you care?

You would not have been diagnosed without you negatively impacting either yourself or those around you, probably both. Lacking insight regarding your condition may result in negative consequences. Thinking that "zero control" is OK needs to be addressed.

(September 23, 2021 at 10:07 am)Angrboda Wrote: In one of Jonathan Haidt's books, he likens some aspects of the mind, such as emotions,  to riding an elephant.  If nobody is riding the elephant, it's just going to go wherever it wants.  And if you've never ridden an elephant, and you hop on its back with no harness or anything, no matter how much you kick it or shout at it, it's just going to ignore you and do what it wants.  But if you learn over time to give the elephant commands, you can learn what it does and doesn't respond to, and gain some control over the animal's natural instinct to just do what it wants to do.  And if you master that skill, you can eventually learn to guide that elephant where you want it to go with efficiency and success.  And furthermore, after a time of learning your behavior, the elephant will know what your various prods and kicks mean, and respond more appropriately to them.  Emotions are like that.  It isn't magic.  You have to make an effort, and not expect results right away.

The Chinese say about one form of training your mind, meditation, "A man combs his hair once a day.  Why not his heart?"

Mind blown.  Must meditate now.  

(September 23, 2021 at 10:40 am)Spongebob Wrote:

(September 23, 2021 at 10:33 am)Ahriman Wrote: I am generally an amiable person, it takes a lot to piss me off. But my rage feels very dark and intense, almost like flexing a muscle you haven't used in a long time. My anger is rare and strange, it feels really weird to be angry, uncanny even. I hate feeling that way.

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That's interesting, but as usual it didn't address one single thing in my post.  Bipolar is a medical condition that usually requires medications to keep under control, so I'm not sure meditation is applicable here.  And I suppose I could understand how you might not comprehend the concept of emotional control.

It really isn't. I've tried meditating. It doesn't work.

(September 23, 2021 at 8:26 am)Ahriman Wrote: I have zero control over my emotions and the notion that emotions can be controlled is extremely annoying to me. You can't control this shit. Not when the emotions are truly real.

Of course you have control over your emotions. Don’t be daft.

Boru

(September 23, 2021 at 10:44 am)brewer Wrote:

(September 23, 2021 at 10:33 am)Ahriman Wrote: I am generally an amiable person, it takes a lot to piss me off. But my rage feels very dark and intense, almost like flexing a muscle you haven't used in a long time. My anger is rare and strange, it feels really weird to be angry, uncanny even. I hate feeling that way.

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Why do you care?

You would not have been diagnosed without you negatively impacting either yourself or those around you, probably both. Lacking insight regarding your condition may result in negative consequences. Thinking that "zero control" is OK needs to be addressed.

Nah dude, that's just the way it is. Can't change what was meant to be.