(September 24, 2021 at 1:17 pm)ayost Wrote:

(September 24, 2021 at 1:06 pm)brewer Wrote: What do you consider 'accurately articulate'? Seems like a pretty nebulous statement and subject to your judgement alone.

If you think most atheists are aggressive and insulting either you haven't encountered enough or that the issue is with how you choose to interact with atheists. You came here with no introduction and no attempt to get to know anything about us before you started preaching (telling us how we are wrong).

It appears that the shoe fits as your other posts indicate. You seem to be in able to accept our nonbelief as valdid but insist we accept yours.

"Accurately articulate" isn't subject to my judgement. I mean you should be able to type true statements about Christianity. Statements can easily be verified.

This is my first time ever on a forum. If there is some etiquette I'm supposed to follow that I didn't, I apologize. I'm trying to understand more and have my beliefs challenged instead of living in a Christian echo chamber. I am looking to challenge atheists as well as be challenged.

I am not hiding my thoughts on atheism. I think atheism is inconsistent and absurd and I think no atheist lives consistently with atheism.

When I say atheism is inconsistent and absurd that isn't an insult to the people, that's a comment on the belief system that is atheism.
When I say no atheist lives consistently with atheism, that is a comment on the people, sort of like your comment on Christians. Not an insult, just an observation.

(September 24, 2021 at 1:20 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: What belief system?  Atheism is a single line item about a thing atheists don't believe in.  

I guess, with respect to whatever you think that belief system is, your earlier comments would apply.  Just because atheists don't act atheist enough, for you..I guess, says nothing about atheism?

Quote:So the idea that "atheists don't live this way" so atheism is untrue or unnecessary or whatever the conclusion is doesn't make sense.

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I did not make that statement about atheists. I wouldn't say that. I don't think that statement works anywhere. I do believe that no atheist lives consistent with atheism, but that's not why it's untrue.

Atheism is hardly a single line item. It permeates everything and not believing one thing leads to other beliefs.

(September 24, 2021 at 1:17 pm)ayost Wrote: "Accurately articulate" isn't subject to my judgement. I mean you should be able to type true statements about Christianity. Statements can easily be verified.

This is my first time ever on a forum. If there is some etiquette I'm supposed to follow that I didn't, I apologize. I'm trying to understand more and have my beliefs challenged instead of living in a Christian echo chamber. I am looking to challenge atheists as well as be challenged.

I am not hiding my thoughts on atheism. I think atheism is inconsistent and absurd and I think no atheist lives consistently with atheism.

When I say atheism is inconsistent and absurd that isn't an insult to the people, that's a comment on the belief system that is atheism.
When I say no atheist lives consistently with atheism, that is a comment on the people, sort of like your comment on Christians. Not an insult, just an observation.

(September 24, 2021 at 1:25 pm)ayost Wrote:

(September 24, 2021 at 1:17 pm)brewer Wrote: Would there be any atheists if theists way way back when did not start claiming 'god(s) did it'?

Seems like 'we don't know' would be a more philosophically rational choice but obviously that didn't happen. Christian is just a johnny come lately.

Ok, so it feels like your first statement is assuming that there was a time or people or civilization that had no concept of God and then all of the sudden theists started making up gods to explain things. Fine hypothesis, I guess, only I would challenge you to show me the people or culture or time where there was no God and then someone made it up. That's a strong assumption you can't prove. In fact, all of the evidence seems to point in the other direction: that man has always had a relationship with God, even though that relationship can get messed up.

Do you have a materialistic, evolutionary, humanist worldview? (or some combination of those? or none of them?) I'm trying to get a sense of what questions to ask you.

(September 24, 2021 at 1:30 pm)brewer Wrote:

(September 24, 2021 at 1:17 pm)ayost Wrote: "Accurately articulate" isn't subject to my judgement. I mean you should be able to type true statements about Christianity. Statements can easily be verified.

This is my first time ever on a forum. If there is some etiquette I'm supposed to follow that I didn't, I apologize. I'm trying to understand more and have my beliefs challenged instead of living in a Christian echo chamber. I am looking to challenge atheists as well as be challenged.

I am not hiding my thoughts on atheism. I think atheism is inconsistent and absurd and I think no atheist lives consistently with atheism.

When I say atheism is inconsistent and absurd that isn't an insult to the people, that's a comment on the belief system that is atheism.
When I say no atheist lives consistently with atheism, that is a comment on the people, sort of like your comment on Christians. Not an insult, just an observation.

Truth is subjective. But I can certainly type 'christians believe in christ'. Happy?

Congratulations, I think god(s) are inconsistent and absurd and only exist as a mental concept made by humans. I have no idea what you mean by 'lives consistently' (another superior nebulous statement). Anything you said after that was for your own benefit. Do christians live consistently, doubtful.

What exact beliefs would you like challenged? Start a thread about those beliefs and we'll tell you what atheists and the like think.

(September 24, 2021 at 1:39 pm)brewer Wrote:

(September 24, 2021 at 1:25 pm)ayost Wrote: Ok, so it feels like your first statement is assuming that there was a time or people or civilization that had no concept of God and then all of the sudden theists started making up gods to explain things. Fine hypothesis, I guess, only I would challenge you to show me the people or culture or time where there was no God and then someone made it up. That's a strong assumption you can't prove. In fact, all of the evidence seems to point in the other direction: that man has always had a relationship with God, even though that relationship can get messed up.

Do you have a materialistic, evolutionary, humanist worldview? (or some combination of those? or none of them?) I'm trying to get a sense of what questions to ask you.

Yes that's an assumption, a hypothesis. But a simple google search suggest that it appears to be valid. Examples:

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/disb...s-religion
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.17040

I have a god(s) does not exist world except as a human fantasy world view.

(September 24, 2021 at 1:46 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's also not something I think is true.  Look at that, can't count on atheists to believe that truth is subjective.  2 and 2 is 4, right...not 2 and 2 is 4.....if there's a god.

(September 24, 2021 at 1:42 pm)ayost Wrote:

(September 24, 2021 at 1:30 pm)brewer Wrote: Truth is subjective. But I can certainly type 'christians believe in christ'. Happy?

Congratulations, I think god(s) are inconsistent and absurd and only exist as a mental concept made by humans. I have no idea what you mean by 'lives consistently' (another superior nebulous statement). Anything you said after that was for your own benefit. Do christians live consistently, doubtful.

What exact beliefs would you like challenged? Start a thread about those beliefs and we'll tell you what atheists and the like think.

I think we are having a conversation. I don't want a thread that's bombarded by people. I prefer a conversation with one person that I can follow. I already figured out it's hard to follow things on here. Haha

As far as living inconsistently, that statement "truth is subjective" is something you don't live consistently with. You don't think 2+2 sometimes equals 5, do you? You don't think that the laws of logic only apply to you and not to me, do you? If your financial advisor straight up lied to you and you lost all your money would you say "meh, truth is subjective."? No one can live that way.

(September 24, 2021 at 1:47 pm)ayost Wrote:

(September 24, 2021 at 1:39 pm)brewer Wrote: Yes that's an assumption, a hypothesis. But a simple google search suggest that it appears to be valid. Examples:

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/disb...s-religion
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.17040

I have a god(s) does not exist world except as a human fantasy world view.

Neither one of those articles do any more than join your assumption. In the first atheists lived among theists. Ok, we knew that. In your second article we just started with many gods and moved to one god. We knew that too. I asked for the society without a god concept.

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(September 24, 2021 at 1:46 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's also not something I think is true.  Look at that, can't count on atheists to believe that truth is subjective.  2 and 2 is 4, right...not 2 and 2 is 4.....if there's a god.

I'm not speaking to all atheists about brewers truth claim, I was speaking to brewer.

(September 24, 2021 at 1:46 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's also not something I think is true.  Look at that, can't count on atheists to believe that truth is subjective.  2 and 2 is 4, right...not 2 and 2 is 4.....if there's a god.

(September 24, 2021 at 1:33 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(September 24, 2021 at 1:17 pm)ayost Wrote: "Accurately articulate" isn't subject to my judgement. I mean you should be able to type true statements about Christianity. Statements can easily be verified.

This is my first time ever on a forum. If there is some etiquette I'm supposed to follow that I didn't, I apologize. I'm trying to understand more and have my beliefs challenged instead of living in a Christian echo chamber. I am looking to challenge atheists as well as be challenged.

I am not hiding my thoughts on atheism. I think atheism is inconsistent and absurd and I think no atheist lives consistently with atheism.

When I say atheism is inconsistent and absurd that isn't an insult to the people, that's a comment on the belief system that is atheism.
When I say no atheist lives consistently with atheism, that is a comment on the people, sort of like your comment on Christians. Not an insult, just an observation.

.....pretty sure this was you?

Anywho, I get that you believe atheism is some as yet undescribed list of things...but it really is just the single line item, in mere reality.  Stick around, you'll see that there's no overarching worldview common to us as atheists.  

I have an experiment.  You said you were here to challenge your beliefs?  Start there.  Are there some questions or objections you intended to present which required this belief to be true?