(September 26, 2021 at 10:08 pm)Spongebob Wrote:

(September 26, 2021 at 9:00 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: 1. Or far more likely - unjustified police shootings happen - but very rarely.....

2. But left wingnut whackadoodles like to pretend every cop that straps on a gun is out looking to snuff some little angel.......

3.  Fact - you are statistically FAR more likely to be murdered by a friend, family member.or neighbor than by a cop.... You can' t dispute this as a fact.....

4.  But when you' re in deep shit - you call the cops.....

Hypocrite....

1.  I would agree that its likely pretty uncommon for police to unjustly kill someone, but the problem is that we can't actually know this because the police are the ones in control of the records and have a very heavy thumb on the scales.  They also have some powerful laws in their favor which protects them in most circumstances from investigations and litigation stemming from their conduct.  So unjustified shootings could be uncommon but we don't actually know this with any certainty.  And we have evidence of far too many unjust police actions to feel good about the issue thanks to cell phone videos.

Interestingly, there's a youtube channel where a guy instructs people who carry how to behave if/when police arrive at the scene where they had to shoot someone.  One piece of advice is to put your gun away before police arrive because any person the police see holding a weapon or even with a holstered weapon who isn't in uniform will immediately be considered a threat.  This is pretty clear evidence that police are literally one breath away from shooting anyone holding a weapon, guilty or not.

2.  Who?  Who is this you are talking about?  Do you have statistics?  I don't know a single "liberal" who fits this description but my own father and brother in law (neither remotely liberal) have had enough experience that they are extremely wary of the police.  Why make up vague boogey men just to argue?  It serves only to make your argument seem more potent but it's easy to see through and you aren't fooling anyone.  Liberals aren't demanding anything unreasonable; just police who aren't criminals themselves.

3.  Friend is probably not likely, but family member or an acquaintance, yes.  Those statistics are no secret nor new information.  However, there are equally shocking statistics regarding how often minor traffic stops result in police shooting and even killing people and not because those people threatened the police.  What you seem to be doing here is making excuses for these cases.  No one disputes the fact that police aren't walking down the street mowing people down, but does that mean the problem doesn't exist?  Does that mean we should look the other way?  Does it mean the people police kill unjustly don't matter?  To the people who loved those victims, it mattered a lot.

4.  Absolutely and rightly so.  That's the intended function of the police, to protect law abiding citizens.  But in many black communities this is no longer the case.  Calling the police can mean a death penalty for innocent people, even the one who called the police.  Is that OK with you?  Do you support this behavior?  Do you want the cops to kill innocent people?  If not, then I would expect you wouldn't make excuses for them.

The whole of your argument seems to be that we should all just shut up about police brutality because it doesn't happen often enough to matter.  With a side of start complaining about criminals killing innocent people.  Well, sure we all want criminals brought to justice but you know they don't drive around in vehicles identifying them as such and they don't have the weight of the law when they knock on your door.  We are compelled to obey the police because they can and will shoot people with impunity.  That's what makes it all the more terrifying.  Even in my extremely quiet and calm city, we've had multiple incidents of police brutality and in most cases the police get little to no punishment.  One sheriff was just recently convicted of corruption over a decades long career, but he got only 2 years.  This kind of thing does not inspire confidence in our legal system and a broken justice system means justice is less likely to be served and the entire system has to spend resources defending corrupt officers.  It's a death spiral and the moment you say "it's no big deal" is the moment you become part of the problem.  To me that's a truly hypocritical thing.

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(September 26, 2021 at 9:49 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: The reaction people tend to have over parental abuse of children is turning a blind eye.  What goes on behind closed doors is that family's business.  It's worse when local police officials are guilty of the same.  I'll not argue it...I lived it.  It fucked me up for life...and no one gave a shit and no one helped.  

Walk in those shoes and tell me all about it.

I'll add that even when I took Criminal Justice classes, the only abuse of children that mattered was sexual.  There are lots of other kinds of abuse that are horribly damaging.

What I'm thinking about are cases where a mother drowns all 5 of her children.  That's a pretty shocking scene and all the worse because it was their mother.

Yates was mentally ill and warned not to have more children. That didn't fit with their religious beliefs. Ever had postpartum depression? Ever had it to the point where it turned into psychosis?

No, of course not. So, you can't imagine what was going on with her.

(September 26, 2021 at 10:19 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Yates was mentally ill and warned not to have more children.  That didn't fit with their religious beliefs.  Ever had postpartum depression?  Ever had it to the point where it turned into psychosis?  

No, of course not.  So, you can't imagine what was going on with her.

You completely missed the context.  My comment was not in any way a critique of mentally ill parents.  I said that when children are killed by a stranger, it's bad.  But when they are killed by a parent, it's mind blowingly horrible because parents are supposed to care for their children.  Sometimes it due to mental illness and that's a sad thing, but sometimes it is just plain evil.

This is an analogy to police killing people vs some random stranger.  We recoil at the police being killers far more than strangers because the police are supposed to be our protectors, not the killers.

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I read back over several pages on this thread. It's funny how so many threads devolve into this sort of thing. I think one big problem is when people just grumble about things and blame the "others" for being too "whatever" instead of actually talking about the real elements of the topic. A huge amount of time people aren't even aware of some details that put the issue into a different context and of course they are always willing to ignore something that doesn't fit their bias.

Washington state has passed several new laws in an effort to address police brutality issues.  Among these are:

Banning choke holds and neck restraints
Restricting the use of tear gas
Prohibiting military equipment
Bans no-knock warrants
Requires police to identify themselves as such to citizens
Bars car chases in some areas
Changes policies on the use of police dogs
Changes how investigations of police misconduct will work
Requirements to employ de-escalation tactics and use least amount of force required
Requirement that officers intervene if another officer is using excessive force and report wrongdoing

There are a few more but are more wordy and difficult to summarize, mostly about professionalism and training and such.  Some of these seem to address the problems that lead to unjustified killing but others are less clear.  Time will tell if this effort results in improvements.  I'm not saying this is a panacea but it is good to see someone at the state level acknowledge there is a problem and attempt to correct it.  One thing that seems to be missing are efforts to develop a better relationship between police officers and the general public that some cities/states have enacted.  This could lead to better trust between police and the public and better tips to identify bad guys.

New NFL record yesterday for longest field goal. Kicker barely made it though, it bounced off the cross bar but went in. Justin Tucker kicked a 66 yarder.

(September 27, 2021 at 9:39 am)Brian37 Wrote: New NFL record yesterday for longest field goal. Kicker barely made it though, it bounced off the cross bar but went in. Justin Tucker kicked a 66 yarder.

Yeah, that was pretty amazing.  On the same day Cardinals kicker kicked a 68 yard attempt short and it was returned for a 109 yard touchdown.

(September 27, 2021 at 7:58 am)Spongebob Wrote:

(September 26, 2021 at 10:19 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Yates was mentally ill and warned not to have more children.  That didn't fit with their religious beliefs.  Ever had postpartum depression?  Ever had it to the point where it turned into psychosis?  

No, of course not.  So, you can't imagine what was going on with her.

You completely missed the context.  My comment was not in any way a critique of mentally ill parents.  I said that when children are killed by a stranger, it's bad.  But when they are killed by a parent, it's mind blowingly horrible because parents are supposed to care for their children.  Sometimes it due to mental illness and that's a sad thing, but sometimes it is just plain evil.

This is an analogy to police killing people vs some random stranger.  We recoil at the police being killers far more than strangers because the police are supposed to be our protectors, not the killers.

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I read back over several pages on this thread.  It's funny how so many threads devolve into this sort of thing.  I think one big problem is when people just grumble about things and blame the "others" for being too "whatever" instead of actually talking about the real elements of the topic.  A huge amount of time people aren't even aware of some details that put the issue into a different context and of course they are always willing to ignore something that doesn't fit their bias.

Your words - I liken it to parental abuse...

(September 27, 2021 at 9:43 am)Spongebob Wrote:

(September 27, 2021 at 9:39 am)Brian37 Wrote: New NFL record yesterday for longest field goal. Kicker barely made it though, it bounced off the cross bar but went in. Justin Tucker kicked a 66 yarder.

Yeah, that was pretty amazing.  On the same day Cardinals kicker kicked a 68 yard attempt short and it was returned for a 109 yard touchdown.

Yea, you don't see missed field goals treated like kickoffs run for touchdowns that much. The Miami/Raiders game was a nail bitter. I was rooting for Miami. There were a lot of amazingly freaky play's and games this weekend. Unfortunately for me Washington sucked huge donkey balls.

(September 27, 2021 at 10:01 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(September 27, 2021 at 9:43 am)Spongebob Wrote: Yeah, that was pretty amazing.  On the same day Cardinals kicker kicked a 68 yard attempt short and it was returned for a 109 yard touchdown.

Yea, you don't see missed field goals treated like kickoffs run for touchdowns that much. The Miami/Raiders game was a nail bitter. I was rooting for Miami. There were a lot of amazingly freaky play's and games this weekend. Unfortunately for me Washington sucked huge donkey balls.

Hey, that could be a good entry into the team's new name!

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(September 27, 2021 at 9:46 am)arewethereyet Wrote: Your words - I liken it to parental abuse...

?

"Washington Donkey Balls"? Ha ha ha, meh, I like our current name. 

Separate story, wish I had a link, I was listening about this on TV. Some haunted house worker used a real Bowie Knife, dressed up as some scary monster, jumped out at a kid, and accidently cut the kid's toe. Needless to say he was arrested, and fired. WHAT THE FUCK WAS HE THINKING? 
The kid is fine, but still. Had that idiot worker never heard of rubber knives for a prop?

(September 27, 2021 at 10:25 am)Brian37 Wrote: "Washington Donkey Balls"? Ha ha ha, meh, I like our current name. 

Actually I do, too.  It would be unique and cool to just be "football team".

Quote:Separate story, wish I had a link, I was listening about this on TV. Some haunted house worker used a real Bowie Knife, dressed up as some scary monster, jumped out at a kid, and accidently cut the kid's toe. Needless to say he was arrested, and fired. WHAT THE FUCK WAS HE THINKING? 

The kid is fine, but still. Had that idiot worker never heard of rubber knives for a prop?

WTF!