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RE: Good News from France and the UK
July 7, 2024 at 7:30 pm
How non-conservative is the labour party, because everything I was reading labeled them as conservative.
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RE: Good News from France and the UK
July 8, 2024 at 2:10 pm
(July 7, 2024 at 7:30 pm)Foxaèr Wrote: How non-conservative is the labour party, because everything I was reading labeled them as conservative.
Try suggesting to a Labour member that they're really conservative and find out...
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
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RE: Good News from France and the UK
July 8, 2024 at 4:01 pm
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2024 at 4:05 pm by Rev. Rye.)
(July 7, 2024 at 7:30 pm)Foxaèr Wrote: How non-conservative is the labour party, because everything I was reading labeled them as conservative.
Labour’s politics are… complicated. The name suggests a socialist party, and, indeed, there’s a good-sized portion that are. But there’s a lot of factions within it. Some are truly based and left-wing (Jeremy Corbyn was one), but some are more centrist (New Labour definitely was, and PM Keir Starmer seems to be trending that way.) And despite the general rule that the European left is usually a lot further left than America, even the British left seems to have yet to come around to certain issues (trans rights being one of the most glaring examples.)
Basically, at the moment, they’re less conservative and more closer to the center than is probably ideal.
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RE: Good News from France and the UK
July 8, 2024 at 4:43 pm
They like to proclaim themselves as the 'voice of the working classes' in their propaganda, though that was never actually the case.
They were the voice of the Trades Unions originally, upto the '70s when a couple of general strikes undermined support for the Trades Unions.
Then came Thatcher in the '80s and effectively decapitated the Trades Unions leaving only Teachers and Nurses as the only unions that still had a voice.
As such their principal policies were Health and Education, which failed to connect with the electorate till Blair showed up and went for a more Centrist platform as the electorate became disenchanted with Tories complacency after over a decade in power.
After Brown crashed the global economy in 2008 they got ejected from power again with Corbyn and Momentum trying to seize control of the party. Unionists rebelled against this leading to Boris' landslide. Starmer came in in the aftermath and failed to do anything really, Just wait for the electorate to become disenchanted with Tory complacency again and here we are.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
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RE: Good News from France and the UK
July 9, 2024 at 5:03 am
(July 8, 2024 at 4:01 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: (July 7, 2024 at 7:30 pm)Foxaèr Wrote: How non-conservative is the labour party, because everything I was reading labeled them as conservative.
Labour’s politics are… complicated. The name suggests a socialist party, and, indeed, there’s a good-sized portion that are. But there’s a lot of factions within it. Some are truly based and left-wing (Jeremy Corbyn was one), but some are more centrist (New Labour definitely was, and PM Keir Starmer seems to be trending that way.) And despite the general rule that the European left is usually a lot further left than America, even the British left seems to have yet to come around to certain issues (trans rights being one of the most glaring examples.)
Basically, at the moment, they’re less conservative and more closer to the center than is probably ideal.
Labour are a coalition of centre-left social democrats and hard right thatcherites. Since Neill Kinnock in the mid-80's Labour's leadership has been thatcherite barring the few years Corbyn tried to rintroduce social-democracy.
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RE: Good News from France and the UK
July 9, 2024 at 6:38 am
(This post was last modified: July 9, 2024 at 6:40 am by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
^I’ll take a coalition of centrists, thatcherites, and social democrats over a monolithic bloc of fascists every day of the week. Twice on Sundays.
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RE: Good News from France and the UK
July 9, 2024 at 2:15 pm
I'm mostly apolitical but I do have opinions and I'm always going to try and go with the lesser evil when given a choice. But I did not want to vote strategically--and vote Labour--so I voted Green.
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RE: Good News from France and the UK
July 9, 2024 at 2:22 pm
(This post was last modified: July 9, 2024 at 2:23 pm by Mr Greene.)
(July 9, 2024 at 5:03 am)Pat Mustard Wrote: (July 8, 2024 at 4:01 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Labour’s politics are… complicated. The name suggests a socialist party, and, indeed, there’s a good-sized portion that are. But there’s a lot of factions within it. Some are truly based and left-wing (Jeremy Corbyn was one), but some are more centrist (New Labour definitely was, and PM Keir Starmer seems to be trending that way.) And despite the general rule that the European left is usually a lot further left than America, even the British left seems to have yet to come around to certain issues (trans rights being one of the most glaring examples.)
Basically, at the moment, they’re less conservative and more closer to the center than is probably ideal.
Labour are a coalition of centre-left social democrats and hard right thatcherites. Since Neill Kinnock in the mid-80's Labour's leadership has been thatcherite barring the few years Corbyn tried to rintroduce social-democracy.
(July 9, 2024 at 6:38 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: ^I’ll take a coalition of centrists, thatcherites, and social democrats over a monolithic bloc of fascists every day of the week. Twice on Sundays.
Boru
? Not sure where you're getting any of that from.
'NU-Labour' would be the Social Democratic side of the party, Brown was a Trotskyist, Corbyn and Momentum are very much a reactionary group from the fringe. An earlier group of social democrats split from party after the '70s strikes before joining the Liberals in '83.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
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RE: Good News from France and the UK
July 9, 2024 at 2:25 pm
(This post was last modified: July 9, 2024 at 2:25 pm by Disagreeable.)
I'd be glad to have had Corbyn as PM. I don't think he's a "reactionary" I think he's truly left-wing. Unlike New Labour, which isn't truly left-wing. But New Labour is still preferable to the Tories and the Tories is still preferable to Fascism. These are my opinions but my own vote won't make much of a difference so I tend to not care too much about politics. I have these opinions, but they aren't particularly strong.
Schopenhauer Wrote:The intellect has become free, and in this state it does not even know or understand any other interest than that of truth.
Epicurus Wrote:The greatest reward of righteousness is peace of mind.
Epicurus Wrote:Don't fear god,
Don't worry about death;
What is good is easy to get,
What is terrible is easy to endure
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