Quote:Maybe a true Superman would guide a declining America back to the virtues that made America great and the kind of America worthy of its principles...you know rather than give up on the nation that raised him into the generous and courageous being he became...give up for some cosmopolitan identity.

How the heck is wanting a better tomorrow giving up on America? and no nation made Superman good in fact ironically in his early runs he often worked against the American status quo. It was WW2 propaganda that added that motto to the character and thank goodness it's gone. Superman doesn't embody one nation he embodies the best of all humankind.Also, this motto fits the character better as he is called "THE MAN OF TOMORROW"

(October 22, 2021 at 6:20 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Maybe a true Superman would guide a declining America back to the virtues that made America great and the kind of America worthy of its principles...you know rather than give up on the nation that raised him into the generous and couragous being he became...give up for some cosmopolitain identity.

I think that approach makes the same failed assumption that supports removing it.  First, Superman is an otherworldly immigrant.  Why would an alien to this world feel compelled to defend the interests of a single nation, especially a being as powerful as him.  Why wouldn't his interests be global in scope?  If not, consider what might have been had he landed in Russia or China or Germany...

It also ignores the obvious trope that America was ever great (and what that even means) and what it was that made it so.  This gets deep into historical and political details, but the upshot is that America basically did one thing right, it formed a representative democratic government based on a set of ideals that promoted individual freedom (the Constitution).  It wasn't the only country moving this way at the time, but it was the country that did so most emphatically.  But let's not pretend that once these rules of freedom were in place, those who ran the country (politically and economically) didn't immediately go about skirting those same rules.  The US may have been the most free place in the world on paper, but it has never lived up to that potential, not even close.  I've understood since a pretty young age that if the Constitution was taken as literally as it should be, a lot of Americans wouldn't want to live here.

Whatever visions people concoct when they hear things like "The American Way" or what "made America great" is hopelessly flawed.  America became a world power through pretty much the same means every other nation has, just with better PR.  This is why the whole MAGA movement is based on a false historical narrative and is mostly bullshit.  To really get into those details, we would need a whole new thread.

(October 23, 2021 at 8:49 am)Spongebob Wrote: Why would an alien to this world feel compelled to defend the interests of a single nation, especially a being as powerful as him. 

Gratitude and humility.

Superman ( and captain America, too, no less) have a long history of what dumb bigots would call anti-American sentiment..or, in today’s lingo, being “too pc”.

Turns out Americans have been known to do some fucked up shit from time to time….I know. I know, fetch the salts.

(October 23, 2021 at 12:17 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(October 23, 2021 at 8:49 am)Spongebob Wrote: Why would an alien to this world feel compelled to defend the interests of a single nation, especially a being as powerful as him. 

Gratitude and humility.

I suppose initially that might make sense, but once he was mature and realized the scope of his powers and what he could do for the world, any rational being of his power would not choose to be limited by a man-made national boundary.  I guess this is beyond the idea of Superman as a kid's character, which the comic book industry very much promotes.  If you've ever read Watchmen or seen the film, the character Dr. Manhattan is the best example of what a being of such power would likely do.

Quote:Gratitude and humility.

Superman owes those things to the human race, not one nation.

(October 23, 2021 at 3:31 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:Gratitude and humility.

Superman owes those things to the human race, not one nation.

 Why?  He was sent here as baby, without his consent. He owes everything to the Kents, who protected him and otherwise treated him a their son. Imo he doesn't owe the human race shit. 

(October 23, 2021 at 5:23 pm)Oldandeasilyconfused Wrote:

(October 23, 2021 at 3:31 pm)Helios Wrote: Superman owes those things to the human race, not one nation.

 Why?  He was sent here as baby, without his consent. He owes everything to the Kents, who protected him and otherwise treated him a their son. Imo he doesn't owe the human race shit. 

Simple because it wasn't just the Kents that took him in it was the earth itself and humanity itself. Superman has been influenced and protected by more than just the Kents. Also, he didn't consent to the Kents being his parents so why does he owe them anything by your logic?

Really? We are going to bicker about what feelings a comic book character should have? I guess I did kinda bring it on. I guess the owners of the IP can do what the want with it and let readers decide

(October 23, 2021 at 3:31 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:Gratitude and humility.

Superman owes those things to the human race, not one nation.

Then use Humanity.

Or Liberty.

Or Freedom.

'a better tomorrow' sounds like a salesman's pitch. DuPont.... giving you a better tomorrow. The person that came up with it should be canned.