(June 20, 2009 at 5:15 pm)chatpilot Wrote: Interesting question Ledo I would answer no.I would simply call it a prime mover or whatever name was in vogue at the time.Anything but God since when you talk about God or gods you are not speaking exclusively of a creator but a deity or higher bieng that requires worship and obeisance.That is my general view of the definition of God.

The question, although asked to the debaters, was really aimed at the god-believers in the audience in order to get them to think outside the box about god. There could be a prime mover (which for the record I currently don't believe in) and it not be "god" or that the nature of "god" is not what we think.

Still waiting for the 20 questions......

(June 21, 2009 at 10:28 am)Dotard Wrote: Still waiting for the 20 questions

OH I wouldn't worry ... I imagine they'll be the same FABNAQ's (frequently asked but never answered questions), that are actually FABRAQ's (frequented asked and repeatedly answered questions), that the fundies consistently fling around and are here with us today is a barely changed form. Harun Yahya is disingenuous, his follower's are stupid enough to blindly believe his crap (and make him rich in the process) in the same way as happened with the Christian oriented ICR, CRS & AIG in the US and many other similar ones there and elsewhere.

Kyu

Harun Yahya is also the publisher of the "Atlas of Creation" book where he had a fishing lure photograph in it as if it was a living caddisfly.

Ledo I personally believe that you would have more success at telling a wall to move itself out of the way with your spoken word than you would if you bombarded a christian with every evidence known to man against his beliefs.Becoming and atheist and freeing yourelf from the vice grip of religious beliefs is a slow and at times agonizing process.I know from my personal experience that becoming an atheist was one of the hardest things I had to endure.But then again I was a hardcore Pentecostal fundamentalist and had what appeared to be supernatural experiences while I was in the ministry.After I left the church though I was able to find explanations in the natural world for most of the most convincing experiences.

(June 20, 2009 at 4:41 pm)LEDO Wrote: I asked a question at a debate, to Dan Barker and a creationist. It went something like this..."What if science could prove without a shadow of a doubt there was a "prime mover." And what if science could also prove that prime mover, dose not think or control our lives, and now does not exist as it became part of the universe. Would either of you be willing to call that prime mover "God?"

What was the answer? One answer would be that it would seriously destroy part of the God idea leading to the destruction of the whole thing as well. Of course you could easily say the prime mover was moved by God. That's how I'm thinking about it now anyway.

(June 22, 2009 at 10:35 am)chatpilot Wrote: Ledo I personally believe that you would have more success at telling a wall to move itself out of the way with your spoken word than you would if you bombarded a christian with every evidence known to man against his beliefs.Becoming and atheist and freeing yourelf from the vice grip of religious beliefs is a slow and at times agonizing process.I know from my personal experience that becoming an atheist was one of the hardest things I had to endure.But then again I was a hardcore Pentecostal fundamentalist and had what appeared to be supernatural experiences while I was in the ministry.After I left the church though I was able to find explanations in the natural world for most of the most convincing experiences.

The idea of conversion is not to convert, but to simply plant the seeds of doubt and let them take root. Am I the only one here who works for Satan?

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(June 22, 2009 at 2:09 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(June 20, 2009 at 4:41 pm)LEDO Wrote: I asked a question at a debate, to Dan Barker and a creationist. It went something like this..."What if science could prove without a shadow of a doubt there was a "prime mover." And what if science could also prove that prime mover, dose not think or control our lives, and now does not exist as it became part of the universe. Would either of you be willing to call that prime mover "God?"

What was the answer? One answer would be that it would seriously destroy part of the God idea leading to the destruction of the whole thing as well. Of course you could easily say the prime mover was moved by God. That's how I'm thinking about it now anyway.

Barker claimed the idea was akin to deism and rejected it as well did the creationist for other reasons which I forgot. The whole idea is to get people to think about God in new ways.

(June 22, 2009 at 10:35 am)chatpilot Wrote: Becoming and atheist and freeing yourelf from the vice grip of religious beliefs is a slow and at times agonizing process.I know from my personal experience that becoming an atheist was one of the hardest things I had to endure.

That's the opposite of my experience. It took an age to become a Christian. And when you're a Christian, you're constantly told of the ease of backsliding etc.. Pressure from family and friends was all very anti Christian too.

For me it was a simple decision not to believe. I just decided one day. I had supposed spiritual experiences too from Pentecostalism.

(June 23, 2009 at 2:21 am)fr0d0 Wrote: For me it was a simple decision not to believe. I just decided one day.

Not to believe what?

It took me awhile since I was a fanatic and truly beleived and feared the Lord at one time.