(January 18, 2022 at 10:45 am)Spongebob Wrote: @Irreligious Atheist

I want to point out that another major theme of the book (New Kid) was the importance of being open to trying new things.  Jordan was reluctant to try the new school, he was reluctant to attend the art class even though he considered himself an artist, he was reluctant to try sports.  But those things were better than he expected and he learned from them.  Alexandria was reluctant to allow people to see her scar for fear they would make fun of her, but that turned out to be not an issue.  Liam was reluctant for Jordan to visit his home because it was grandiose and he feared Jordan would judge him, but Jordan responded well and their friendship flourished.  Even Ms Rawls was quick to judge Jordan's sketch book and reluctant to go a little deeper to understand his point of view, but eventually listened to him and came to understand him better.  This was demonstrating how people can have pre-programmed expectations about other people, but that listening and considering can open them up to understanding.  I think this is where you are, IA.  You are just projecting your programmed expectations onto this book.  Reducing this book to a simple and inane lesson that blacks need to stand up for themselves is wildly flawed and ignorant.  Its like saying the theme of Star Wars was beware of people wearing white space suits.

I actually liked the book for the most part, but I didn't know I was required to write a five page book report on it running down every little detail. My apologies. I focused on the getting the name wrong part the most because this is related to a very recent news story that I brought up, where two black female university students complained to the school about their professor mixing up their names (after they walked into class late and while they were wearing masks covering most of their faces, no less), and now this professor is no longer at the school. This was an extremely woke professor too, so this just goes to show you that no amount of wokeness and apologising for your privilege will ever be enough for some people. The woke will always end up eating their own. This is not the direction we want to be going in as a society, imo, but it may be too late to stop it and we may just have to accept that this is the world now.

Why write a five page thesis when you can just spit out some arglebargle about how it's part of an effort to destroy western society and harm children... and anyone who disagrees is a race traitor, amiright?



I agree, no one in their right mind would want things to be going the way that you think they are - but you're not in your right mind and things aren't going that way. So, relief!

(January 18, 2022 at 11:28 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: I actually liked the book for the most part, but I didn't know I was required to write a five page book report on it running down every little detail. My apologies. I focused on the getting the name wrong part the most because this is related to a very recent news story that I brought up, where two black female university students complained to the school about their professor mixing up their names (after they walked into class late and while they were wearing masks covering most of their faces, no less), and now this professor is no longer at the school. This was an extremely woke professor too, so this just goes to show you that no amount of wokeness and apologising for your privilege will ever be enough for some people. The woke will always end up eating their own. This is not the direction we want to be going in as a society, imo, but it may be too late to stop it and we may just have to accept that this is the world now.

What an ass you are.  NO ONE told you any such nonsense and you know it.  I took it upon myself to write a review noting important elements of the story which you just ignore and pretend don't exist.  

Again, you are focusing on one incident.  One incident that I acknowledge is wrong and a mistake, does not define society.  You know this and are just pretending that it isn't so.  Do you behave this way in real life?  Do you take every single incident and blow it out of proportion and pretend it defines a generation?  It doesn't and you KNOW this.  Only a brain dead idiot wouldn't know it.  So stop pretending and act like a real human.

Basically you are dishonest and not worthy of conversation.  It's really not worth my while to talk to a liar.

(January 18, 2022 at 11:52 am)Spongebob Wrote:

(January 18, 2022 at 11:28 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: I actually liked the book for the most part, but I didn't know I was required to write a five page book report on it running down every little detail. My apologies. I focused on the getting the name wrong part the most because this is related to a very recent news story that I brought up, where two black female university students complained to the school about their professor mixing up their names (after they walked into class late and while they were wearing masks covering most of their faces, no less), and now this professor is no longer at the school. This was an extremely woke professor too, so this just goes to show you that no amount of wokeness and apologising for your privilege will ever be enough for some people. The woke will always end up eating their own. This is not the direction we want to be going in as a society, imo, but it may be too late to stop it and we may just have to accept that this is the world now.

What an ass you are.  NO ONE told you any such nonsense and you know it.  I took it upon myself to write a review noting important elements of the story which you just ignore and pretend don't exist.  

Again, you are focusing on one incident.  One incident that I acknowledge is wrong and a mistake, does not define society.  You know this and are just pretending that it isn't so.  Do you behave this way in real life?  Do you take every single incident and blow it out of proportion and pretend it defines a generation?  It doesn't and you KNOW this.  Only a brain dead idiot wouldn't know it.  So stop pretending and act like a real human.

Basically you are dishonest and not worthy of conversation.  It's really not worth my while to talk to a liar.

If you do not want to respond, don't bother. It's not my fault you haven't been paying attention to the news and events over recent years and would rather spend your time watching SpongeBob re-runs. Just because I put the focus on and brought up one event, that doesn't mean that there are no other events similar or even quite worse than this, and I'm sure there have been plenty of other complaints about professors being racist that are not accurate or were misinterpreted by the student. Take for instance, Evergreen College, where a riot happened because students were upset a Jewish professor, Bret Weinstein, refused to leave school on what these woke racist fascist students were calling a day without white people. Very much in the spirit of equality, I know, right? These woke POS students also held administrators hostage, all in the name of wokeness https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9252  My point was, that these things need to be nipped in the bud before this type of thing gets out of control and becomes more commonplace. Give these people a reality check rather than giving into their demands.

(January 18, 2022 at 1:44 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: If you do not want to respond, don't bother. It's not my fault you haven't been paying attention to the news and events over recent years and would rather spend your time watching SpongeBob re-runs. Just because I put the focus on and brought up one event, that doesn't mean that there are no other events similar or even quite worse than this, and I'm sure there have been plenty of other complaints about professors being racist that are not accurate or were misinterpreted by the student. Take for instance, Evergreen College, where a riot happened because students were upset a Jewish professor, Bret Weinstein, refused to leave school on what these woke racist fascist students were calling a day without white people. Very much in the spirit of equality, I know, right? These woke POS students also held administrators hostage, all in the name of wokeness https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9252  

There might be other similar incidents, but this is far from the standard treatment and regardless of how many there are, they don't erase what was done in the past, nor do they balance out current injustices that people ignore.   

If you want to discuss the validity and/or danger of woke culture or cancel culture, then please do so on another thread.  But coming on this thread and claiming that all of the oppression of blacks in this country is now invalid because some black students got this one professor fired for saying something wrong, that's just the height of ignorance.  One injustice doesn't erase another.  So just stop pretending it does.  A reasonable person would understand this. 

Quote:My point was, that these things need to be nipped in the bud before this type of thing gets out of control and becomes more commonplace. Give these people a reality check rather than giving into their demands.

You did not make that point.  All you did was equate one injustice with another and claim that CRT was bullshit because of this new injustice.  You weren't even trying to bring up a different issue and make an argument about what should be done.  IF you want to do that, be my guest, but stop pretending you had another point to make when you clearly didn't.

(January 18, 2022 at 4:42 pm)Spongebob Wrote:

(January 18, 2022 at 1:44 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: If you do not want to respond, don't bother. It's not my fault you haven't been paying attention to the news and events over recent years and would rather spend your time watching SpongeBob re-runs. Just because I put the focus on and brought up one event, that doesn't mean that there are no other events similar or even quite worse than this, and I'm sure there have been plenty of other complaints about professors being racist that are not accurate or were misinterpreted by the student. Take for instance, Evergreen College, where a riot happened because students were upset a Jewish professor, Bret Weinstein, refused to leave school on what these woke racist fascist students were calling a day without white people. Very much in the spirit of equality, I know, right? These woke POS students also held administrators hostage, all in the name of wokeness https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9252  

There might be other similar incidents, but this is far from the standard treatment and regardless of how many there are, they don't erase what was done in the past, nor do they balance out current injustices that people ignore.   

If you want to discuss the validity and/or danger of woke culture or cancel culture, then please do so on another thread.  But coming on this thread and claiming that all of the oppression of blacks in this country is now invalid because some black students got this one professor fired for saying something wrong, that's just the height of ignorance.  One injustice doesn't erase another.  So just stop pretending it does.  A reasonable person would understand this. 

Quote:My point was, that these things need to be nipped in the bud before this type of thing gets out of control and becomes more commonplace. Give these people a reality check rather than giving into their demands.

You did not make that point.  All you did was equate one injustice with another and claim that CRT was bullshit because of this new injustice.  You weren't even trying to bring up a different issue and make an argument about what should be done.  IF you want to do that, be my guest, but stop pretending you had another point to make when you clearly didn't.

Leave it to IA to produce a massively slanted  version of the evens at evergreen and use an extremist right-wing source 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bret_Weins...e_incident

---

(January 18, 2022 at 11:43 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Why write a five page thesis when you can just spit out some arglebargle about how it's part of an effort to destroy western society and harm children... and anyone who disagrees is a race traitor, amiright?



I agree, no one in their right mind would want things to be going the way that you think they are - but you're not in your right mind and things aren't going that way. So, relief!

True 

For the record, the story of Bret Weinstein at Evergreen is a bit more complicated than IA's recollection of the events. And, indeed, I think his initial reaction to the event is fairly valid, if imperfect (especially given that The Day of Absence was originally meant to highlight the contribution nonwhites make to society, just like its namesake play, and swapping out who gets to be absent kind of misses the whole point.) The real protests happened a bit later, due to an incident where two black students were taken from their dorms by cops, and shit really hit the fan for Weinstein when he made the mistake of trying to confront the protesters:



Frankly, nobody comes across well in this exchange. Nobody really seems to quite get where the other person's coming from, and while I can't co-sign with the protesters running largely on emotion in the exchanges (and when you decide to start dealing only in absolutes, frankly, you look like the Sith to me), not seeing the nuances in Weinstein's arguments, I really can't co-sign with the fact that Weinstein went on Tucker Carlson a few days later. He just went with the bullshit narrative Tucker was pushing about how the protests were all about Weinstein refusing to leave campus when they demanded a day without white people and how he was the bulwark against white people being forced from the college (the Day of Absence was strictly voluntary) and not bothering to fill in the details he was leaving out. And this just led to someone who previously considered himself a progressive allying with far-right figures.

Believe it or not, I'm one of the leftists here that's most likely to call out the legit excesses of the left. It might not seem like it to IA, but that's mostly because I have a far higher standard of what constitutes real Political Correctness Gone Mad than he does. And as frustrating as the more jackasstic parts of the left can be, I know better than to ally myself with groups that are, if not full-blown Nazis, a link or two away from them. Because I know what would happen if they got their way (particularly notable starting 19 minutes in):



And, however much I dislike the excesses of identity politics or wokeness, their hopes for the world are almost certainly a Hell of a lot better than that.

(January 18, 2022 at 5:01 pm)Helios Wrote:

(January 18, 2022 at 4:42 pm)Spongebob Wrote: There might be other similar incidents, but this is far from the standard treatment and regardless of how many there are, they don't erase what was done in the past, nor do they balance out current injustices that people ignore.   

If you want to discuss the validity and/or danger of woke culture or cancel culture, then please do so on another thread.  But coming on this thread and claiming that all of the oppression of blacks in this country is now invalid because some black students got this one professor fired for saying something wrong, that's just the height of ignorance.  One injustice doesn't erase another.  So just stop pretending it does.  A reasonable person would understand this. 



You did not make that point.  All you did was equate one injustice with another and claim that CRT was bullshit because of this new injustice.  You weren't even trying to bring up a different issue and make an argument about what should be done.  IF you want to do that, be my guest, but stop pretending you had another point to make when you clearly didn't.

Leave it to IA to produce a massively slanted  version of the evens at evergreen and use an extremist right-wing source 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bret_Weins...e_incident

---

(January 18, 2022 at 11:43 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Why write a five page thesis when you can just spit out some arglebargle about how it's part of an effort to destroy western society and harm children... and anyone who disagrees is a race traitor, amiright?



I agree, no one in their right mind would want things to be going the way that you think they are - but you're not in your right mind and things aren't going that way. So, relief!

True 

Haha great hit piece you've got there, and nice to see you cement your racism and shitty views further here by defending a 'day without white people', where they are told not to come into school because of the colour of their skin. Why do you hate yourself so? And your article plays the victim about these criminals receiving deaths threats for their criminal actions, and admonishes Bret Weinstein for having subscribers and making money lol like a jealous ex-girlfriend, and talks about him going on Joe Rogan, which is relevant to anything how? Neil Degrasse Tyson goes on Joe Rogan all of the time. Where do you get this stuff? Students took administrators hostage, and I linked to that video, and you are trying to defend this by saying I'm misrepresenting things. You do the same when Antifa tries to burn down courthouses. You always have a defense for these people and you refuse to deal with or even acknowledge the snakes in your own grass, because you are one of them.

No one cares about your worthless babble IA

---

(January 18, 2022 at 6:49 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: For the record, the story of Bret Weinstein at Evergreen is a bit more complicated than IA's recollection of the events. And, indeed, I think his initial reaction to the event is fairly valid, if imperfect (especially given that The Day of Absence was originally meant to highlight the contribution nonwhites make to society, just like its namesake play, and swapping out who gets to be absent kind of misses the whole point.) The real protests happened a bit later, due to an incident where two black students were taken from their dorms by cops, and shit really hit the fan for Weinstein when he made the mistake of trying to confront the protesters:



Frankly, nobody comes across well in this exchange. Nobody really seems to quite get where the other person's coming from, and while I can't co-sign with the protesters running largely on emotion in the exchanges (and when you decide to start dealing only in absolutes, frankly, you look like the Sith to me), not seeing the nuances in Weinstein's arguments, I really can't co-sign with the fact that Weinstein went on Tucker Carlson a few days later. He just went with the bullshit narrative Tucker was pushing about how the protests were all about Weinstein refusing to leave campus when they demanded a day without white people and how he was the bulwark against white people being forced from the college (the Day of Absence was strictly voluntary) and not bothering to fill in the details he was leaving out. And this just led to someone who previously considered himself a progressive allying with far-right figures.

Believe it or not, I'm one of the leftists here that's most likely to call out the legit excesses of the left. It might not seem like it to IA, but that's mostly because I have a far higher standard of what constitutes real Political Correctness Gone Mad than he does. And as frustrating as the more jackasstic parts of the left can be, I know better than to ally myself with groups that are, if not full-blown Nazis, a link or two away from them. Because I know what would happen if they got their way (particularly notable starting 19 minutes in):



And, however much I dislike the excesses of identity politics or wokeness, their hopes for the world are almost certainly a Hell of a lot better than that.

True 

To the OP: if segregating children by race during instruction about privilege is not teaching CRT; then, having school children recite the Lord's Prayer is not teaching Christianity, either. In other words, teaching concepts derived from a dogma, is basically teaching the dogma indirectly. Personally, I find all forms of race essensialism morally repugnant and find advocacy of CRT below contempt.