Ever since I read about the Swiss health care system, I have advocated adopting it for Australia. That would mean for Australia abolishing medicare and replacing it with a system which would require private insurers be required to offer offer coverage to all citizens, regardless of age or medical history. And in turn people be obligated to buy health insurance with subsides for those whose health insurance expenses are more than a certain percentage of their income.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/health...wanted=all

It has the best of all possible worlds namely universal coverage, along with a customer driven focus.

A few things to take into consideration before you leap here...

The population of Switzerland is only about 7.5 million and do consider the land mass. 41290 sq. KM of land locked mass... no water except for lakes. Climate differences are only due to change in altitude. Have we mentioned the cost of living there? The wages? The taxes?

The population of Australia is less dense, but 21.7 million is still 3 times as many (imagine how difficult the American's have it!), but the land mass of 7,686,850 sq. KM of nearly every climate there is to offer. The divercity of illness is far greater and much more spread out. Let's face it... the differences between the outback and the coast are far greater than the differences in altitude in Switzerland.

Adaptation is the key, but one needs to take many more factors into consideration before attempting such an overhaul... more than not the foundations not being the same can result in greater problems than one who imagine.

I live in Austria... our system has many bugs in it, but compared tot he rest of the world it is damned good. We only have 8.3 million people here and the land mass is 83858 sq. KM of, well a lot like Switerland... various altitude. The cost of living is rather high, but then again wages do reflect this cost and tax...

Long story short, everyone will receive medical services. NO ONE IS REJECTED! (If you think that's good... check out Sweden, they're even better!) The private insurances here are more that you can get a private room or that you can have cosmetic surgery and such covered in the medical plan.

On thing that is present in both the Austrian and Swiss medical systems, that being much less of the costs going to cover medical malpractice insurances. For example... if you sue for "pain and suffering" you receive a standard amount of money for this, I believe between €3000 to 8000. That's it. No lottery win. Court costs are low.

I have a list here of what I have cost the system in Austria. We receive an annual statement. Considering that I have had in the past 4 years... 3 brain opertions, a bursectomie of the right elbow, operations for a torn achilles tendon, torn calf muscle, meniscus... in addition to this about 18 MRI's, 32 CT's and over 80 blood tests... not to mention the medications and rehab (which would have been covered, but as I am a sports trainer I could save them this money)... the total cost of this whole gig was less than €100,000 for everything. All I had to pay for was €20 for medications and €8 per day that I was in the hospital (overnight) totaling €200. That's it!

There were some complication, but nothing that was really the fault of the doctors. Not every operations goes as planned. My sister who is a lawyer in the USA when to great lengths to explain what I could sue for. She meant well, but seemed to forget that the people in the hospital were doing their very best to get me healed. Estimations of pain are not something that can be empirically measured. She like many Americans view such things as a chance to "get rich quick". There was no real malpractice and the laws in Austria do not allow one to "spin it" in such a manner if there is not evidence other than a patient who has intuitively thought it to be so. This saves us millions here, perhaps this would be billions in the USA... as for Downunder I cannot really say.

(One of my beefs about "Occupy Whatever"... both sides of the issue seem to accuse the other of "greed"... I feel that a counter protest "Occupy Responsibility" would be much better and make a symbolic protest against "envy", but if this is mentioned to either side you are treated like a "SINNER"... both being the religions that they are, short sighted "blame games" with not rules except for those you make up as you go along out of convenience to your personal position... sorry... I rant!)

Small countries tend to be much easier to manage, plus we both have systems of governement that are "social democratic"... the word "social" is often confused with "socialism"; thus explaining the tea party in the USA.

Long story short... there are far more factors involved that one might care to imagine. Honestly, I'm not too sure how much in Australia goes toward covering the legal crap, but this is where things really can be cut most easily without hurting the general population.

It's not a solution, but a suggestion... one that is all too often forgotten (perhaps intentionally?).

Meow!

GREG

Same is in Turkey.
Healthcare is free, however services can be slow sometimes. And you have to pay some money in addition to your taxes to the government.
So it practically means you're insuranced by the government. There are also places called "sağlık ocağı(health houses)", which are places where you can go and get healthcare for free, however, it's not really something for serious things such as surgeries.
Like if you got a lower degree burns, lacerations, and things like a cold and other manners of things, or if you want to get yourself vaccined, you can go there. You can also get your prescriptions signed, and get your medicine at pharmacies for free, although not all are completely free, like for example when I was buying some type of food stuff that you get via a tube, I only had to pay 1/3 of it, and the rest was from the government(via my mother's insurance from the central bank of Turkey+insurance of my grandmother by the government of Turkey and Bağkur).

I also can get myself checked for anything for free due to the services provided by the central bank of Turkey, plus in all and every military hospitals because I have a card issued to me due to my late grandfather(may he rest in peace) being a colonel in the army.

(November 22, 2011 at 4:43 am)Justtristo Wrote: Ever since I read about the Swiss health care system, I have advocated adopting it for Australia. That would mean for Australia abolishing medicare and replacing it with a system which would require private insurers be required to offer offer coverage to all citizens, regardless of age or medical history. And in turn people be obligated to buy health insurance with subsides for those whose health insurance expenses are more than a certain percentage of their income.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/health...wanted=all

It has the best of all possible worlds namely universal coverage, along with a customer driven focus.

This looks like the dreaded obamacare, which americans are for some reason afraid of.

I for one would never move to america unless i was minted because of the poor health system for us lowly paid workers.

(November 22, 2011 at 7:32 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Same is in Turkey.
Healthcare is free, however services can be slow sometimes. And you have to pay some money in addition to your taxes to the government.

You have a curious definition of "free" in Turkey.

I'm kidding, of course. It's interesting to hear how other nations have handled the challenge of ensuring it's citizens have good health care. You mentioned that obtaining services are slow, are there any widespread issues? Overall, it sounds like you're pleased with how your system works - would you agree?

I only ask because our system in the U.S. is seriously flawed, particularly for the uninsured, and I'm interested in hearing about success stories so that we might find a system that would work here.

All sounds better than here where you're insured by scumbag private insurance companies right up until you get sick.

Then they tell you to go fuck yourself in the name of profit.

Quote:Ever since I read about the Swiss health care system, I have advocated adopting it for Australia. That would mean for Australia abolishing medicare and replacing it with a system which would require private insurers be required to offer offer coverage to all citizens, regardless of age or medical history. And in turn people be obligated to buy health insurance with subsides for those whose health insurance expenses are more than a certain percentage of their income.

Australia actually had a system very much like that before Medicare. I worked for the Commonwealth health department, as an auditor. I audited the books of the health funds, a truly stultifying job.


It was called 'The Subsidised Health Benefits' System'. I was appalled when it was abolished,not believing for a second that Medicare would be cheaper or more efficient. I was part right..

Our present system, with its absurd 30%s subsidy ON TOP of Medicare for private health insurance seems to be more expensive and less efficient. However, I think it can be argued that our present system is more EFFECTIVE,which I consider more important,

(November 22, 2011 at 6:42 pm)padraic Wrote: Australia actually had a system very much like that before Medicare. I worked for the Commonwealth health department, as an auditor. I audited the books of the health funds, a truly stultifying job.


It was called 'The Subsidised Health Benefits' System'. I was appalled when it was abolished,not believing for a second that Medicare would be cheaper or more efficient. I was part right..

Our present system, with its absurd 30%s subsidy ON TOP of Medicare for private health insurance seems to be more expensive and less efficient. However, I think it can be argued that our present system is more EFFECTIVE,which I consider more important,

Thanks for filling in what the Australian health care system was like before Medicare. To be fair the state governments here have a major role in our health care system. Because they own and run the "state" hospital systems which suffer from problems such as long waiting lists for elective surgery and excess bureaucracy. I have personally spoken to people who work in state hospitals and they have noted especially the latter.

Anyway the problem I see with the 30% private health insurance rebate is that it often than not goes to people who can afford health insurance anyway.

Quote:Anyway the problem I see with the 30% private health insurance rebate is that it often than not goes to people who can afford health insurance anyway

Yes there is that. One could be forgiven for thinking the subsidy is for the greedy middle class. (who already pay a 2.5% tax levy for Medicare)

However,there are also many thousands in my position;older people who may be in need of elective surgery ,such as say a knee or hip replacement or a heart operation for a condition which is not IMMEDIATELY life threatening. EG 2 years ago,I had minor plumbing surgery,at a private hospital. (covered by my private health insurance) From diagnosis to operation:10 days. Public hospital; a 2 year wait.

I do not have private health insurance because I can easily afford it, I have it because I cannot afford NOT to have it if I wan to maintain a decent quality of life as I age.

(November 22, 2011 at 5:57 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(November 22, 2011 at 7:32 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Same is in Turkey.
Healthcare is free, however services can be slow sometimes. And you have to pay some money in addition to your taxes to the government.

You have a curious definition of "free" in Turkey.

I'm kidding, of course. It's interesting to hear how other nations have handled the challenge of ensuring it's citizens have good health care. You mentioned that obtaining services are slow, are there any widespread issues? Overall, it sounds like you're pleased with how your system works - would you agree?

I only ask because our system in the U.S. is seriously flawed, particularly for the uninsured, and I'm interested in hearing about success stories so that we might find a system that would work here.

Well, we get our healthcare one way or the other, yes...
But as I said, services are kind *slow* and waiting in hospitals can be a bother sometimes just to get checked by a doctor, or get a prescription from a specific one.
Insurance goes two ways in here. The higher classes generally prefer private health insurance companies, or just simply go to private hospitals where healthcare services are provided much faster.
However, middle class people can either prefer state insurance, or just get them automatically if they work for the state, and might also benefit from a few extras on the side.
However, if you work for the private sector, whomever you work for, or whomever who works under you, must be insuranced. This goes to mostly a state owned insurance company, which will allow you to become officially "retired" and get pensions and free healthcare for that, too.
And after you die, this automatically passes to your nearest female(widowed or unmarried) relative(could be your wife or sister, or daughter and etc.). She gets your monthly payments, and benefits from every healthcare services that are entitled to you.