Absorbing Ukraine into Russia can be done in many ways.  For example a strongly Russophile regime similar to the lukashenko regime in Belorus can make a nominally independent and neutral state effectively part of Russia for economic and military purposes.    The integration could even go from de facto to de jure at a later date with some kind of treaty of federation.

Keep in mind USSR was technically not a unitary state but a federation of independent states sharing a common form of government.   Internally the Soviet Union always portrayed itself as such.   There was the Ukrainian Soviet socialist republic, the Russian Soviet soviet socialist republic, Belorussian Soviet socialistic republic, etc, etc, around 30 in total.    And then there is the Union of Soviet socialist republics as the USSR.    Civil, economic and Cultural events were mostly conducted under the name of the individual republics in the USSR, and relatively few were conducted under the “all Union” context.

 So Putin would likely find a renewal of the Soviet arrangement entirely satisfactory.

(March 12, 2022 at 12:54 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(March 12, 2022 at 11:51 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Russia’s biggest logistics problem isn’t equipment, it isn’t food, it isn’t medical supplies, and it isn’t fuel. It’s troops.

The RAND Corporation - who are really, REALLY good at this sort of modeling - has said it takes 20 soldiers of an occupying force per 1000 population of the occupied country to hold it in the face of minimal resistance (the number increases exponentially in the face of moderate or heavy resistance). Right now, Russia is at about a quarter of that.

Putin would need at least 800 000 combat troops to secure Ukraine. He doesn’t have them and he can’t get them without sparking a revolution at home. He’s fucked.

Boru

He doesn't really need to subdue Ukraine if he can subdue Kyiv and a couple of big cities.  Regime change and occupation are different goals.

History is replete with examples of would-be conquerors who held the cities and lost the country due to the rubes being in revolt against them. He would need Russian troops to dealt with such a revolt (he’d be hard-pressed to find enough Ukrainian collaborators to matter).

Boru

(March 12, 2022 at 1:20 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Absorbing Ukraine into Russia can be done in many ways.  For example a strongly Russophile regime similar to the lukashenko regime in Belorus can make a nominally independent and neutral state effectively part of Russia for economic and military purposes.    The integration could even go from de facto to de jure at a later with some kind of treaty of federation.

Keep in mind USSR was technically not a unitary state but a federation of independent states sharing a common form of government.   Internally the Soviet Union always portrayed itself as such.    So Putin would likely find a renewal of the Soviet arrangement entire,y satisfactory.

That absolutely works if you don’t have 20 million civilians taking up arms against the regime.

Boru

(March 12, 2022 at 1:23 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(March 12, 2022 at 12:54 pm)Angrboda Wrote: He doesn't really need to subdue Ukraine if he can subdue Kyiv and a couple of big cities.  Regime change and occupation are different goals.

History is replete with examples of would-be conquerors who held the cities and lost the country due to the rubes being in revolt against them. He would need Russian troops to dealt with such a revolt (he’d be hard-pressed to find enough Ukrainian collaborators to matter).

Boru

Not necessarily.    The rebel of the primarily Russian speaking breakaway provinces to the east form a natural reservoir of motivated native collaborationist enforcers similar to the Vichy milice.     Modern Ukraine is an somewhat arbitrary, short term convenience based assemblage of different ethnicities, languages, and loyalties created by Soviet Union.   Much of the industrial and demographic core actually rests along the boundary between areas of dominantly Ukrainian ethnicity and heavily Russified or russophone areas.    

Ukraine’s infrastructure was not set up to support a resilient independent state, but to support centralized management as a center of heavy defense industry and collectivized agriculture.   So much of Ukraine depends on a series of dams on the Dniper and a few enormous nuclear power plants for power.     No doubt the recent attack on one of these Soviet legacy mega nuclear power plants was part of Putin’s strategy to put the Russian heel on the jugular of post war ukraian economy.   No doubt in putin’s plan these key power plants will end up in the hands of Russified or russophone “autonomous” regions inside any nominally “independent and neutral” post war Ukraine, or to become connected to parts of crimea Russia annex outright.

(March 10, 2022 at 7:27 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(March 10, 2022 at 7:16 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: I' m surrounded by the humorless.....


....

Yeah, we’re warped because we don’t find torture to be funny. It’s all on us, I suppose.

Boru

And then the murders started ......

And desperate apologetics continue 

Still don't care Sheila....

(March 12, 2022 at 3:53 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Still don't care Sheila....

I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to Anomalocaris.......

(March 12, 2022 at 6:57 am)WinterHold Wrote: People..

China and Russia's alliance is becoming more clear for the eyes.
Gog and Magog..

---

Lessons:

1-Never become allies with the West or Gog and Magog (i.e Russia+China); they will backstab you -especially the west-.
2-Gog and Magog are destructive just like the west. But my knowledge about their history tells me they can be far,far,far more destructive.

Putin is occupying nuclear plants and research facilities in Ukraine. and the west already said officially that he is trying to start WW3.

1) China and Putainville are not in an alliance. China are busy distancing themselves from the war that's not the actions of an ally. If there's any development in the China Russia relationship in the next few years it'll be Russia becoming China's de facto vassal.
2) Your country has done extremely well out of the western alliance the deifiers of Wahhab are firmly ensconsed in their petro state.
3) The term gog and magog is extremely racist. I thought somebody like you, who is quick to see racism even where there is none, wouldn't be so quick to lob rocks out your glass house.
4) What relevance does bronze age mythology (gog & magog) have to do with reality?
5) Weren't you a Putain apologist last week? Quick reverse ferret there.

(March 12, 2022 at 3:59 pm)Helios Wrote:

(March 12, 2022 at 3:53 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Still don't care Sheila....

I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to Anomalocaris.......

Who can tell?  Even when you quote, you remove the name.