(April 15, 2022 at 9:09 am)Jehanne Wrote:

(April 15, 2022 at 8:22 am)brewer Wrote: I always thought I might be part shrimp.

Praying before, during and after sex is fun for many couples.  Why, I don't know.  Maybe the thought of God watching them in bed is enticing!

My oldest and I lived on the second floor in a duplex years ago.  The couple who lived downstairs were a year ahead of me in school.  They were having trouble conceiving and a conversation one day had her telling be about how they prayed before sex in the hopes of getting pregnant.

Well, eventually their god answered their prayers and they had a little boy and a couple months later killed the husband in a car accident.

So god granted what they fervently prayed for but the price was killing one of them off.

Kind of a Game of Thrones thing - a life for a life.

(April 15, 2022 at 10:30 am)ABQ505 Wrote:

(April 15, 2022 at 8:02 am)brewer Wrote: What denomination of christian church is this and why do you think they are obsessed with porn?

Or maybe it isn't the church.

This particular church is a Baptist church, however, I've been to many churches over the decades my wife and I have been married, and I've attended many men's meetings within various denominations, and still, p*rn seems to be the go-to "sin" for men in most groups. I suppose it's possible that men talk about that topic to avoid having to talk about more challenging topics, like anger, feelings, and fear (emotions in general).

Things must have changed since the 70's. For men back then the most common sin was cheating thy neighbor and coveting their wives.

Sounds like it's time for you to stop attending that church, unless you secretly enjoy it.

It was the one-armed one-legged one-eyed man!!!

(April 15, 2022 at 6:50 am)ABQ505 Wrote: Now, this man says he's been a Christian for 30 years, and that God has slowly freed him from his compulsions, but that God is "taking his time" to "heal" him from "bondage" (interesting word choice for this application).

It's interesting how believers will say "God will fix [this or that] thing. Oftentimes, it's a lot like we use the term "Mother Nature."

"Mother Nature won't let the deer population grow too large." well, yeah. When we say that we don't mean some old lady going around knocking off excess deer with a magic wand. We are referring to causal forces as a personified entity. Except when Christians do it, they actually insist that you believe in the person in the metaphor.

What sucks about it is, there is actually a genuine strength within you that enables you to overcome life's difficulties. But by calling it God and associating it with their religion, they get to say that that force won't "be there for you" under certain circumstances (like, if God is pissed at you or something-shrug-). But that's bullshit. You are either strong enough to do something or you aren't.

I'd never let some religion impose constraints on my inner strength.

(April 15, 2022 at 5:52 pm)brewer Wrote: "....Sounds like it's time for you to stop attending that church, unless you secretly enjoy it."

I agree. I only attend to make my wife happy. I had a talk with her, and told her that I won't be attending church again. She understands.

I don't think a group of men meeting to discuss "men problems" in a safe environment to help each other through their issues or being accountable is such a bad thing.

(April 15, 2022 at 6:50 am)ABQ505 Wrote: My wife is a Christian, and because I'm a nice guy, and I love my wife and want to keep her happy, I occasionally attend church services with her. She seems to enjoy herself while there, and she gets along with the other ladies very well. I'm not terribly offended by the religious nonsense promulgated there at the church, but I have noticed an annoying trend among Christian churches, and especially Christian men in particular. 

The men there will say things like.... "Every man's battle" (referring to p*rnography), and claim that "all men" struggle with certain things in the current worldly culture. Things like, p*rn, addiction, anger, lust, finding a "purpose" and the like, and while I understand that many men do indeed have such challenges, it seems to me that those who "trust in Jesus" should have an extra level of protection from such matters, and sadly, this doesn't seem to be the case.

I recently attended a "men's breakfast meeting" where the speaker shared his trouble with addiction and sexual impurity (thoughts, images, etc). He said.... "But praise God, I only look at p*rn about once every one or two months". Now, this man says he's been a Christian for 30 years, and that God has slowly freed him from his compulsions, but that God is "taking his time" to "heal" him from "bondage" (interesting word choice for this application).

Oh boy. Where to start? First, I'm appalled by the Christian mantra that goes something like.... "I'll never be perfect" or "I'll always be a sinner in this life". I've always found such ruminations disempowering and self-defeating. I myself gave up booze, p*rn, and anger many years ago - all without the "help of Jesus". I've never gone back to those former patterns and I have no desire to, nor any fear that I may do so. I simply had enough of that life, and I traded it for sobriety, peace, and purity of thought - all without the "help of Jesus".

Now, I must cool my jets here, lest I become haughty or braggadocios, which is not my intention, and may otherwise cloud my thoughts, thus creating an attitude where I myself may fall under the wheel of being "special" or in some way appearing that I'm somehow better than these men in certain ways - I am not. I have simply found a lifestyle and a worldview which permits me to be selective in which thoughts, actions, and attitudes may rule my life, and thus, I have no need of a "savior" other than my own mental faculties and experiential application through trial and error. That being said, I'm not comparing myself with or against these men, but rather, I'm expressing my great frustration with the "praise Jesus" attitude when it comes to practical matters, and especially those concerning the shedding of former patterns which have worn out their welcome in one's life.

How is it that people (men and women) who claim to be in the care of the "creator of everything" just can't seem to conquer basic challenges without appealing to some outside force for assistance or guidance? Could it be that "Jesus" is, for them, as he's always been - a scapegoat? The bible speaks of not persisting in sin that grace may abound (crucifying the Lord afresh), and also says that believers can do "all things" through Christ who strengthens them, yet many continue living a life they claim they no longer desire, all while continuing to cling to a Jesus that apparently has no ability to release them from old patterns.

I take full responsibility for my former ways, and I hold myself to a standard that I have set for myself. No cosmic daddy is going to help me, free me, or curse me along my path - I'm in this one on my own. I create the life I desire through hard work and a strong determination to improve (as I define it). I am not a "good person" nor do I particularly even know or care what that means, and so, the "he thinks he's going to heaven because he's a good person" line doesn't apply to me. Heck, what is heaven, and what is a "good person"?

In conclusion, I'm frustrated with the escapism I see in the Christian faith - it excuses bad attitudes and behaviors as "acts of the devil" and gives credit to a god for any hope for self-correction or personal betterment, all while also saying that this god/helper allows them to carry on with whatever [sins] they're into until some mysterious afterlife, where all things will be wonderful, and they will be perfected. I say... how about one takes personal responsibility for their own failures and successes, and ditch the antagonist, scapegoat, and otherly helper (who is apparently far off), in favor of rolling up your sleeves, accepting responsibility for the good and bad, and getting on with the business at hand; namely, owning your shit.

Some really insightful observations. One thing people need to be careful of is the 'Captain of my own ship (correctly spelled)' attitude, lest they stumble from pride.

(April 19, 2022 at 6:35 pm)tackattack Wrote: I don't think a group of men meeting to discuss "men problems" in a safe environment to help each other through their issues or being accountable is such a bad thing.

Depends on their man problems..though, honestly, I wouldn't call any of the thematic elements of the mens group movement particularly manly, or even real problems.  It's incredible how often you'll hear them complain about safe spaces from their safe space though. It's a real shame, you/we/housecat wants it to be something better, there's potential, but nope. I do know a guy that got some use out of one, though, for his actual addiction. You see, he didn't give a shit about the stares and glares from other people in AA. It never compelled him to stop in that group setting - but he did give a shit how his fellowship looked at him, so he pressed them into service on that.

ABQ you are a rare breed of humans from my experience. Traits you described you have are very rare .

(April 19, 2022 at 6:35 pm)tackattack Wrote: I don't think a group of men meeting to discuss "men problems" in a safe environment to help each other through their issues or being accountable is such a bad thing.

It would be great if they actually held each other accountable, rather than providing a safe space for them to hide in their addictions and compulsions. And I don't buy the 'men's problems' nonsense. They have told themselves that 'all men' have these issues, for no other reason than to allow an atmosphere where they don't feel so creepy in their issues.