(November 27, 2011 at 5:58 pm)TheReal Wrote: Secular humanism (which now will be abbreviated as SH and is synonymous for atheism or agnosticism) is an absolute cancer, a poison to society. I could give you the arguments of communism, Hitler, etc, but I used to read these forums and realize these are old tired points, so here’s something fresh.

Confusing association with causation
This assumes cause and effect for two variables simply because they occur together. This fallacy is often used to give a statistical correlation a causal interpretation. For example, during the 1990’s both religious attendance and illegal drug use have been on the rise. It would be a fallacy to conclude that therefore, religious attendance causes illegal drug use. It is also possible that drug use leads to an increase in religious attendance, or that both drug use and religious attendance are increased by a third variable, such as an increase in societal unrest. It is also possible that both variables are independent of one another, and it is mere coincidence that they are both increasing at the same time.

TheReal Wrote:SH does have a God. That God is I. The God of SH is me and all that matters (the alpha to the omega) is my personal happiness. This philosophy is deeply flawed. And the ultimate referendum is coming very shortly.

I'd be a bit careful about placing such an accusation forth.
A god/deity has the earmarkings of a classic anthropomorphic extention of human character traits upon the universe/cosmos. Suggestions that the universe/cosmos is god and that this in turn has such human traits/desires as moral agendas or purpose/intention is indeed an anthropomorphic fallacy. In fact, a god/deity, especially one who happens to dislike that same people that the believer happens to dislike, is a proxy of ego; thus the god of such theistic constructions is the "I" wearing the 'mask of a god/deity'. A very convenient methods of finding the necessary (self) justifications for whatever one choose to wish for.

(btw... don't start a sentence with "and"...)

TheReal Wrote:I am entirely convinced (as is Stephen Hawking and many others) that in the very near future – we’re talking a decade – humanity itself will start to unravel. In order to enhance our happiness and well being, we’re going to begin putting machines in our bodies. At first it will be a chip in our brain to augment our intelligence, then we’ll replace our organs, perhaps even lack a corporal form and so on and so forth until we can no longer be considered human. If this doesn’t happen, within the next 30 – 40 years we’ll have full immersion virtual reality, where we can live in fantasy lands of unending pleasure. We can be Jake Sully in Avatar, have sex that feels real, go to the moon, the stars – who would ever want to live in this pathetic world? Eventually we’ll be so dependent; we’ll forgo our bodies and place our brains in boxes so we can live in our virtual ‘reality’ unmolested. And why will all of you do this? Because again, happiness is what it’s all about – there ain’t nothing higher.

You can call me crazy, which I’m sure a lot of you will. But they said the same thing of Einstein, and Darwin, the examples go on.

If you’ve read the literature and understand what our fate will be – chew on this: since my little scenario will mean the destruction of humanity (the ultimate evil) was the medieval Church right for hating science?

Why won’t I become a machine? Why won’t I let the Matrix come true? Because through my finding of religion (Judaism in case you’re wondering) I realized there’s something higher in this world than me.

It might surprise you, but the vast majority of SH tend to be focused on empirical evidences and not intuitive desires and agendas. There is really no SH handbook or concrete doctrine. SH is, for the most part, a very general term. More or less a place to dump any non-theistic systems of understanding. Indeed some may seem to be very "self-serving", but there have been (and are) a great umber of people involved in the seats of power within theistic belief systems who are just as "self-serving".

I really don't know you and really would like to hope that the rather flamming rants you have tended to put forth are not representative of your character. That aside... I seems as if you are in "need/want/desire" of a center in your life. There are many options for this process of centering, but it would be perhaps of good reason to acknowledge that you are not everyone and perhaps there are those who are not in need of the same things or perhaps not in need of a center at all.

You are aware that your making such a blanket proclaimation will give others the impression that you are indeed attempting to play "master of all knowledge of what is right and wrong within the universe"? Sure, frustration is one thing, but you have to admit that there is very much of the "pot calling the kettle black" going on in your posts. It does rasie the question, is the god that you are perhaps placing forth here indeed the god of everyone or just your own private reflection in the mirror?

From my perspective, I am willing to make a debate with you, but I fail to understand what grounds you have to make such accusations for or against any particular position presented here thus far. All I can see is a bit of an intuitive observation on your part, but there is nothing other than conjecture or speculative correalation to back up the claims.

My reason for asking for more on your part, is you do indeed have a "new perspective" within the realm of philosophy, you'll have to do much more than "yell and scream" at people via short posts and quips in this thread. You yourself said that this is a challenge to the philosophies of SH and atheism. A bit odd concerning atheism, as this is simply the answer to a single question and not a philosophy at all. To make claim that there is a philosophy via a single answer is an absurd notion, much like attributing character traits to all individuals who happen to have size 9 shoes. More or less, to challenge or make the claim of failure of other philosophical positions and premises, you'll simply have to do much better than just rant out loud. Please, if your claim to have such a new view, please write it out so that it can be understood, in a clear empirical logical manner.

I would not say that you are "crazy", but simply unclear and lacking a logical structure in your position; thus rendering it completely incoherent.


Meow!

GREG

(November 27, 2011 at 6:30 pm)TheReal Wrote: How is it waking up in the morning knowing your life serves no purpose?

It's fucking ACE.

To know I am essentially purposeless and that it annoys the crap out of you that atheists don't care, is more satisfying than anything your lord can give to me.

Quote:That you go around chasing your primitive desires, to have sex, to get stuff.

Aha! You've defined a purpose!

Quote: What a boring, fake existence.

It's not fake, it's reality.

Quote:Seriously, tell me what's more real. Giving yourself to the Lord in a life long pursuit of goodness, caring about the community, having a family - or following the atheist European model of vapidity?

European atheists care about being good, care about the community, care about their family, as well as chasing their primitive desires to have sex and get stuff. I'm not sold on worshipping your invisible friend, who seems to have a massive ego.

TheReal Wrote:
How is it waking up in the morning knowing your life serves no purpose?


That's what make life intriguing. I have many purposes and intentions in life... none of them ultimate. Many of them where not even the foucus of my attention, but hey... why have such a subborn and willful will (seems very egotisitcal to be so willful with your life)? You miss out on too much that way. This keeps the day fresh and new for me. I simply push my rocks up Mt. Olympus and eventually that all fall back into the valley below. Never a dull moment...

If you don't know what I'm talking about here, this might give a bit of insight into where I'm coming from... http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/se....google.at


Meow!

GREG

(November 27, 2011 at 7:11 pm)ElDinero Wrote: Speaking of predicting the future, if this guy carries on, I'm going to predict his name turning pink, followed by black with a line through it. All hail the prophet Long Island El D.

Yes, this.

Ok first of all I'm a socialist and a secular humanist and in no way does either mean being a machine. My vison of socalism is more everyone should have the right to life. And my idea of SH is not beliving in supernatural entites. So neither idea will harm society

It appears that he's left his rock solid argument of "I can imagine a technologically driven dystopia, ergo secular humanism and atheism are failed philosophies". Pha's comment about alphabet soup is dead-on. Honestly, what the fuck is going on with the faithful's obsession with their own imaginations of late?

Quote:Speaking of ignorant what percentage of your salary have you donated to charity this year?

Oh for fuck sake!. Strawman fallacy AND an ad homimen attack,by implying humanists/atheists are uncaring.

Quote:Plus I'd like an explanation on how an explosion of light became conscious.

Well, you won't get it from me because (1)I've never made that claim nor was I aware anyone had.(2) having made no claims, I have no burden of proof and need explain nothing. (3) don't care about your personal superstitions.

Atheism is NOT a philosophy. It comes from the Greek word 'atheos' a=without 'theos'=- god. An atheist is simply person who does not believe in gods.Nothing else is implied or may been inferred. MY atheism is the result of my skepticism,an effect,not a cause.

The burden of proof is yours alone.

Bored now.

PS What explosion? Are you referring to the so-called 'big bang"? For goodness sake read some science.Then you might come across as a bit less of an ignoramus.

*yawn*

The original poster is an idiot

(November 27, 2011 at 5:58 pm)TheReal Wrote: Let me start out by saying I used to be an atheist and in a way sort of am.

Let me stop you right there. Has anything good ever come from something that starts out with "Let me start out by saying I used to be an atheist"? I don't think so. Atheists, if your first thought after reading this was "here we go..." raise your hand.

It's humans like this that are going to destroy us.

There should be universal law, that all stupid persons should be castrated.
This nutjob makes too many assumptions.

The only thing that the word Atheist means, is that one has no belief in a God. That's it. Not that they worship science or want to be a machine. Hey dumbfuck, how can I be my own god when I don't believe in the son of a bitch in the first place?