(May 25, 2022 at 10:20 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(May 25, 2022 at 10:16 am)brewer Wrote: For the 'concept' of god(s) to be believed as existing in reality I'd need something more than testimony or anecdote/story.

Don't go the the 'in court' argument. That's comparing apples to oranges.

We depend upon ordinary perception for our evidence.  Many believe you can perceive God or his presence or his effects similarly.  In pragmatism, that's both sufficient and all you have for anything.

If you base your personal 'perception' as evidence that's ok with me (many schizophrenics consider that evidence). But I require more. If not testable it's needs to be reliably repeatable, and by validated by third parties with something more than testimony or anecdote/story.

I need something more to believe in the concept of god existing in reality.

(May 25, 2022 at 10:31 am)brewer Wrote:

(May 25, 2022 at 10:20 am)Angrboda Wrote: We depend upon ordinary perception for our evidence.  Many believe you can perceive God or his presence or his effects similarly.  In pragmatism, that's both sufficient and all you have for anything.

If you base your personal 'perception' as evidence that's ok with me (many schizophrenics consider that evidence). But I require more. If not testable it's needs to be reliably repeatable, and by validated by third parties with something more than testimony or anecdote/story.

I need something more to believe in the concept of god existing in reality.

That's not the point. Intersubjective validity exists for said perception. How are your perceptions testable and sensus divinatis not?

You believe you're seeing an apple. They believe they're seeing God. Neither can be tested without resorting to circular logic.

I'm wondering whether Jesus will eventually evolve into the god of lost car keys and wallets.

(May 25, 2022 at 10:50 am)Angrboda Wrote: I'm wondering whether Jesus will eventually evolve into the god of lost car keys and wallets.

St. Anthony already has that job.

(May 25, 2022 at 10:46 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(May 25, 2022 at 10:31 am)brewer Wrote: If you base your personal 'perception' as evidence that's ok with me (many schizophrenics consider that evidence). But I require more. If not testable it's needs to be reliably repeatable, and by validated by third parties with something more than testimony or anecdote/story.

I need something more to believe in the concept of god existing in reality.

That's not the point.  Intersubjective validity exists for said perception.  How are your perceptions testable and sensus divinatis not?  

You believe you're seeing an apple.  They believe they're seeing God.  Neither can be tested without resorting to circular logic.

Independent third person(s). Stops the circle.

I am surprised theist are 13.8% with 145 members bcause they sure are not very active.

(May 25, 2022 at 3:15 pm)brewer Wrote:

(May 25, 2022 at 10:46 am)Angrboda Wrote: That's not the point.  Intersubjective validity exists for said perception.  How are your perceptions testable and sensus divinatis not?  

You believe you're seeing an apple.  They believe they're seeing God.  Neither can be tested without resorting to circular logic.

Independent third person(s). Stops the circle.

Independent how? Are these independent observers getting their information by some other means? No, they aren't. So, circular.

(May 20, 2022 at 1:42 am)medusa53 Wrote: Of course I believe in God. How else did we all get here?

Well, when a man gets horny for a woman...

(May 26, 2022 at 8:35 am)Nomad Wrote:

(May 20, 2022 at 1:42 am)medusa53 Wrote: Of course I believe in God. How else did we all get here?

Well, when a man gets horny for a woman...

(May 25, 2022 at 4:02 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(May 25, 2022 at 3:15 pm)brewer Wrote: Independent third person(s). Stops the circle.

Independent how?  Are these independent observers getting their information by some other means?  No, they aren't.  So, circular.

Yes, they're considering what they consider 'reality' (with out the overlay of religion), versus what other's religious consider belief.