Lol IA chooses Mr. Girl as an expert ......

Figures 

I can't understand why people are upset by transgenders? Can someone explain to me in a few sentences what the issue is? I know that some people are upset, but, what, exactly, are they upset about, and, especially, what do they want?

I don't get it either, any more than I can get why guys I knew in the past who used to go out and "beat up queers".  Or at least claimed to, years later. Fucked up, is all I can say.

(June 1, 2022 at 5:14 pm)Fireball Wrote: I don't get it either, any more than I can get why guys I knew in the past who used to go out and "beat up queers".  Or at least claimed to, years later. Fucked up, is all I can say.

I don't see how they are any different than Muslim extremists who want to turn the entire World into a giant caliphate. It's a paradox that if and when conservatives stop fighting with liberals, they will start fighting with each other.

These days right-wingers are running around with a gotcha "what's a woman " as if they have the ultimate weapon way of delegitimizing Trans people. The obvious counter is simply to point out that as far as gender is concerned woman is simply a self-identifier this has the utility of covering all women and avoiding needless stereotypes. But the right, of course, dislike this and insist that their definition which conveniently excludes Trans People is the only right one because it's been the definition for a long time (argument from antiquity anyone?) but I have yet to see them come up with an actual objection to this definition.

(June 1, 2022 at 6:27 pm)Helios Wrote: These days right-wingers are running around with a gotcha "what's a woman " as if they have the ultimate weapon way of delegitimizing Trans people. The obvious counter is simply to point out that as far as gender is concerned woman is simply a self-identifier this has the utility of covering all women and avoiding needless stereotypes. But the right, of course, dislike this and insist that their definition which conveniently excludes Trans People is the only right one because it's been the definition for a long time (argument from antiquity anyone?) but I have yet to see them come up with an actual objection to this definition.

I believe their objection is that chicks with dicks are icky. They used the same objection for homosexuality.

(June 1, 2022 at 6:36 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(June 1, 2022 at 6:27 pm)Helios Wrote: These days right-wingers are running around with a gotcha "what's a woman " as if they have the ultimate weapon way of delegitimizing Trans people. The obvious counter is simply to point out that as far as gender is concerned woman is simply a self-identifier this has the utility of covering all women and avoiding needless stereotypes. But the right, of course, dislike this and insist that their definition which conveniently excludes Trans People is the only right one because it's been the definition for a long time (argument from antiquity anyone?) but I have yet to see them come up with an actual objection to this definition.

I believe their objection is that chicks with dicks are icky.  They used the same objection for homosexuality.

Generally, try and say the idea of woman as a  self identifier is useless (despite it having the clear use of being a self identifier which somehow isn't useful)

(June 1, 2022 at 6:36 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(June 1, 2022 at 6:27 pm)Helios Wrote: These days right-wingers are running around with a gotcha "what's a woman " as if they have the ultimate weapon way of delegitimizing Trans people. The obvious counter is simply to point out that as far as gender is concerned woman is simply a self-identifier this has the utility of covering all women and avoiding needless stereotypes. But the right, of course, dislike this and insist that their definition which conveniently excludes Trans People is the only right one because it's been the definition for a long time (argument from antiquity anyone?) but I have yet to see them come up with an actual objection to this definition.

I believe their objection is that chicks with dicks are icky. They used the same objection for homosexuality.

I suspect that there's a lot of reasons. And the sad thing is that the "chicks with dicks are icky" argument is probably the closest there is to a legit argument (at least if the trans person in question is one of those who thinks that having genital preferences for sex is transphobic).

But I think the big reason transphobia became more blatant in recent years is because the right's seen that they're not going to win their fight against homosexuality, and fighting "transgenderism" is the next best thing. Caitlyn Jenner coming out as trans and increasing trans visibility probably helped accelerate this trend.

Another thing to note: the white evangelicals who've made up the Republican Party's base for years has developed increasingly strong emphasis on strict gender roles. And thinking about how trans folk fit into those rigid categories is too complicated for them, so the trans folk have to go.

(June 1, 2022 at 6:36 pm)Angrboda Wrote: chicks with dicks are icky.

Trademark with royalties? Act quickly, I would!

(June 1, 2022 at 2:06 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: For the record,
1) It's one thing to give someone a second chance. When he's currently working on another relationship and he's still being abusive (which covers a good-sized portion of the video), that kinda rings hollow. About the only positive I can give for his growth is that at least the videos of his time with his current girlfriend seems (as far as I know) to mostly be down to emotional abuse rather than physical.
2) For what it's worth, there's another version of the doco without the music. I should probably have linked to that one.  
3) The circumstances that led to Vaush and Contra falling out are a bit more complicated than you presented it, and, frankly, it's a situation where nobody comes out looking particularly good.

And back to the subject at hand, regardless of any drama Max Karson or Natalie Wynn have endured, in the video you presented, it's concise, but it ends up sounding a bit questionable and uncomfortably right-wing-adjacent. Indeed, less than a minute after the part you linked to in the &t section of the video, he outright says that "when people say trans women are women, they are lying to you." Regardless of Karson's actual beliefs, this is the sort of thing that makes people (especially trans folk) think "Well, this person has nothing worthwhile to say." And Natalie's video, as long as it is, does a good job of explaining the pitfalls of echo chambers and cancel culture, and doing so in terms that the left is more likely to listen to.

Vaush actually comes out of it swimmingly, and I don't even agree with Vaush that JK Rowling dislikes trans people. Vaush did NOTHING out of line. Natalie is full of herself and thinks her opinion trumps all cis people by default, which is BS. That argument is no better than Candice Owens saying she speaks for the blacks. I used to like Contra and watch a bunch of her videos, but she's lost me at this point. No more. She makes a 2 hour video crying about how people tried to cancel her, and then she turns around and ends her relationship with Vaush because he refused to concede to her on trans issues. At least she didn't try to cancel vaush publicly, but nonetheless, she's a huge hypocrite and she pretty much no longer exists to me after what she did to Vaush. Mr. Girl>>>>Contrapoints, because Mr. Girl has admitted to wrong doing. Contrapoints needs to do the same, and Vaush deserves an apology for being 100 percent in the right. Maybe Contra was going through some mental health things and regrets how she treated Vaush that day, but if that's the case, I'd like for her to come forward and admit such. Tell us she just had a bad, really emotional day, and I might be willing to forgive her.