(June 5, 2022 at 1:50 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(June 5, 2022 at 1:30 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Transgender females (especially, if they are taking hormones) are incapable, physically, of rape or even sexual assault.  Are you suggesting that transgender females sentenced to prison be confined with biological male prisoners?  If not, where do they go to serve their sentences?

You don't need to be taking hormones or get any surgeries to be considered trans by law, and what the heck do you mean they are not even capable of sexual assault. Something like a pat on the butt or touching a breast is sexual assault. They can finger people, or use an object. There are plenty of ways to sexually assault a person other than actual sex.

It would be nice if trans women were all able to be housed together in male prisons in a particular unit to be kept safer, if that's doable, or to keep them in a ward with older folks or people less likely to be violent.

The last thing that I, as a transgender female, would do would be to sexually assault a biological woman. For starters, I would not want her to rip my long hair out by its roots, gouge my face or crack my nails.

As for being housed in a male prison, that would be a hell hole. I have little muscle mass and could never defend myself against most men, even old ones. Beyond solitary confinement, I would be much more of a target in a male prison than a woman's one.

(June 5, 2022 at 1:57 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(June 5, 2022 at 1:18 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: It's terrible that male prison guards do that, but you're basically saying, and I definitely don't think you're meaning to sound so harsh, but you basically seem to be implying that since male guards rape female prisoners, therefore it's whatever that prisoners with penises are also raping them and knocking them up. This is just one wrong piled up on top of another, and you're certainly making things even worse for bio females by allowing women with penises, and in some cases women with penises who are sex offenders, into women's prisons. Just because some really bad stuff has already been happening in women's prisons, that doesn't mean we should therefore allow even more harm to be caused to these women just because we think they're thick skinned and can handle it because the male prison guard rapists have already gotten them used to this behaviour and trained up to endure it. And yeah, I certainly don't think you can compare getting fingered by a female prisoner to getting knocked up with a human life inside of you, but what do I know. I'm not a survivor of SA.

I'm saying that if you're worried about women getting sexually assaulted in prisons, you're worrying about the wrong fucking culprits. It's sort of analogous to that one time Tucker Carlson claimed that the Potomac is so unclean because immigrants keep littering in it and not because of all the other problems.

I don't think there are enough female prison guards to entirely staff female prisons, so in regards to your problem of male guards up to no good, a solution of eliminating male guards is not really realistic or doable, therefore, male prison guard on female prisoner SA would seem to be unavoidable. In the cases of SA from prisoners with penises towards prisoners with vaginas, there absolutely is something we can do about that and that is not unavoidable. It's not the basically unfixable problem that you are bringing up. All you have to do to fix the problem I brought up is to not put prisoners with penises in women's prisons.

(June 5, 2022 at 4:38 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(June 5, 2022 at 1:50 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: You don't need to be taking hormones or get any surgeries to be considered trans by law, and what the heck do you mean they are not even capable of sexual assault. Something like a pat on the butt or touching a breast is sexual assault. They can finger people, or use an object. There are plenty of ways to sexually assault a person other than actual sex.

It would be nice if trans women were all able to be housed together in male prisons in a particular unit to be kept safer, if that's doable, or to keep them in a ward with older folks or people less likely to be violent.

The last thing that I, as a transgender female, would do would be to sexually assault a biological woman.  For starters, I would not want her to rip my long hair out by its roots, gouge my face or crack my nails.

As for being housed in a male prison, that would be a hell hole.  I have little muscle mass and could never defend myself against most men, even old ones.  Beyond solitary confinement, I would be much more of a target in a male prison than a woman's one.

It's irrelevant whether you would harm someone. I was not making any accusation towards you personally. You are not every trans person in the world, or every person who pretends to be trans to go to a women's prison.

Like I said, there should be measures taken to keep trans people and pedophiles and people at risk like that safe from SA if possible.

(June 5, 2022 at 5:11 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(June 5, 2022 at 4:38 pm)Jehanne Wrote: The last thing that I, as a transgender female, would do would be to sexually assault a biological woman.  For starters, I would not want her to rip my long hair out by its roots, gouge my face or crack my nails.

As for being housed in a male prison, that would be a hell hole.  I have little muscle mass and could never defend myself against most men, even old ones.  Beyond solitary confinement, I would be much more of a target in a male prison than a woman's one.

It's irrelevant whether you would harm someone. I was not making any accusation towards you personally. You are not every trans person in the world, or every person who pretends to be trans to go to a women's prison.

Like I said, there should be measures taken to keep trans people and pedophiles and people at risk like that safe from SA if possible.

Oh, yeah, lumping trans with pedos; there's a safe combination!

And if you're turning your concerns about trans women to sexually assaulting other female prisoners by touching their tits or grabbing their asses, I should remind you that even that is something cis women can easily do. Hell, when I worked at a scene shop in college, I had a female coworker who did shit like that to other girls. I suppose that her strangely childlike personality allowed her to get away with it.

(June 5, 2022 at 8:43 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: And if you're turning your concerns about trans women to sexually assaulting other female prisoners by touching their tits or grabbing their asses, I should remind you that even that is something cis women can easily do. Hell, when I worked at a scene shop in college, I had a female coworker who did shit like that to other girls. I suppose that her strangely childlike personality allowed her to get away with it.

I was not doing that at all. Jehanne said that trans women are not capable of sexual assault, which is an absurd statement, so I had to respond to her and correct that when I read it.

(June 6, 2022 at 11:54 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(June 5, 2022 at 8:43 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: And if you're turning your concerns about trans women to sexually assaulting other female prisoners by touching their tits or grabbing their asses, I should remind you that even that is something cis women can easily do. Hell, when I worked at a scene shop in college, I had a female coworker who did shit like that to other girls. I suppose that her strangely childlike personality allowed her to get away with it.

I was not doing that at all. Jehanne said that trans women are not capable of sexual assault, which is an absurd statement, so I had to respond to her and correct that when I read it.

The context was that abuse that biological men can inflict upon biological women, which is unique to (most) biological men. Most transgender females, such as myself, are not capable of such abuse.

By the way, I witnessed sexual assault at Kinnick Stadium in Iowa City during an Iowa Hawkeyes football game when a major rockstar made physical content with an Iowa Hawkeyes female band performer, touching his rear against hers during his performance. Most women are annoyed by such antics, but they do not (typically) fear for their lives with such behaviors.

(June 6, 2022 at 7:49 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(June 6, 2022 at 11:54 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: I was not doing that at all. Jehanne said that trans women are not capable of sexual assault, which is an absurd statement, so I had to respond to her and correct that when I read it.

The context was that abuse that biological men can inflict upon biological women, which is unique to (most) biological men.  Most transgender females, such as myself, are not capable of such abuse.

By the way, I witnessed sexual assault at Kinnick Stadium in Iowa City during an Iowa Hawkeyes football game when a major rockstar made physical content with an Iowa Hawkeyes female band performer, touching his rear against hers during his performance.   Most women are annoyed by such antics, but they do not (typically) fear for their lives with such behaviors.

I'm sure you meant well and you sound like a good enough person to me, but you did put sexual assault in a separate category from the r word. The r word usually means penetration. SA usually refers to anything besides penetration, which anyone who is not in a coma or immobile is capable of. Again, I'm sure you meant well, but I'd just suggest that it's probably not good for trans optics to phrase things the way you phrased it.

(June 6, 2022 at 9:47 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(June 6, 2022 at 7:49 pm)Jehanne Wrote: The context was that abuse that biological men can inflict upon biological women, which is unique to (most) biological men.  Most transgender females, such as myself, are not capable of such abuse.

By the way, I witnessed sexual assault at Kinnick Stadium in Iowa City during an Iowa Hawkeyes football game when a major rockstar made physical content with an Iowa Hawkeyes female band performer, touching his rear against hers during his performance.   Most women are annoyed by such antics, but they do not (typically) fear for their lives with such behaviors.

I'm sure you meant well and you sound like a good enough person to me, but you did put sexual assault in a separate category from the r word. The r word usually means penetration. SA usually refers to anything besides penetration, which anyone who is not in a coma or immobile is capable of. Again, I'm sure you meant well, but I'd just suggest that it's probably not good for trans optics to phrase things the way you phrased it.

Including transgender females (who, are not that numerous) into the population of biological women prisoners will not increase the levels of abuse that such women experience already in prison; in fact, I would hypothesize that the abuse levels overall would go down.  Again, exceptions do not prove the rule here, and as with life, there are tradeoffs.  Other than solitary confinement, I could not survive in a male prison, not that I have any "plans" on going to prison!

And, for the record, here's an article about what happens when trans women are sent to men's prisons (spoiler alert: they end up becoming victimised). And this state of affairs is actually common for trans folk.

Incidentally, Chris-Chan (note: all links in this paragraph should be assumed to be safe for neither work nor your sanity) is currently in jail (a men's jail) after admitting to being a literal motherfucker. I don't know whether it's a good thing or a bad thing (Chris' actual gender identity is a contentious subject to Christorians, due in no small part to a tenuous grasp on gender [Chris apparently came out as trans after having a vision of themself as a woman at Woodstock] and what is almost certainly long-untreated psychosis), but Chris seems to be doing fine in protective custody (even if Chris' delusions have gone from believing they're the God-Empress of a dimension where reality and fiction are on the verge of coexisting to believing they're literally Jesus Christ.)