There's been a big consumer shift in my generation from what is called fast fashion to sustainable fashion. There's a lot of arguments behind it, from environmental issues to worker conditions, etc.

But the main argument is that it is unethical to buy clothes from fast fashion brands, and thrifting is ethically superior.

Now, I'm way out of my field when it comes to ethics but something about that argument always felt wrong or exaggerated. I don't know to what extent a consumer is ethically responsible for the actions of a merchant or producer.

I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on the matter. I'm also interested if anyone knows any philosohy papers or any branch of ethics that looks into these particular questions.

Fashion is for people who have very little else to worry about - mainly the rich, the inept and the vain.

Ask a guy who is trying to kill a bear with a rock so he can feed his family how he feels about fashion. See how much fashion dominates his worries.

You' ll be lucky if he doesn' t brain you with his bear killing rock....

(August 5, 2022 at 4:20 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: There's been a big consumer shift in my generation from what is called fast fashion to sustainable fashion. There's a lot of arguments behind it, from environmental issues to worker conditions, etc.

But the main argument is that it is unethical to buy clothes from fast fashion brands, and thrifting is ethically superior.

Now, I'm way out of my field when it comes to ethics but something about that argument always felt wrong or exaggerated. I don't know to what extent a consumer is ethically responsible for the actions of a merchant or producer.

I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on the matter. I'm also interested if anyone knows any philosohy papers or any branch of ethics that looks into these particular questions.

If a merchant or producer is engaging in practices a consumer disagrees with, I should think the consumer would be ethically obligated to withhold their patronage. 

This is why I don’t patronize my local Puppy-Kicking Emporium.

Boru

(August 5, 2022 at 4:32 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Fashion is for people who have very little else to worry about - mainly the rich, the inept and the vain.

Ask a guy who is trying to kill a bear with a rock so he can feed his family how he feels about fashion. See how much fashion dominates his worries.

You' ll be lucky if he doesn' t brain you with his bear killing rock....

I think I’d be ok. As soon as Man With Rock turns his attention to me, I suspect the bear would take advantage of the situation.

Boru

(August 5, 2022 at 4:37 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If a merchant or producer is engaging in practices a consumer disagrees with, I should think the consumer would be ethically obligated to withhold their patronage. 

Do you see that as a symbolic protest? Or do you see every purchase as containing a hidden ethical transaction, such that you are a direct sponsor or accomplice of the merchants' practices?

Fashion is just someone else's opinion about what I wear, I ignore it. "Such and such is in fashion this year" why, who decides?
I still wear clothes I have had for decades, if they fit and are not worn out why change? (my wife has other ideas on this subject, I have found it safer not to argue too much!)

(August 5, 2022 at 5:04 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Fashion is just someone else's opinion about what I wear, I ignore it.

I think clothing is more complicated and interesting than that.

There are the obvious cultural aspects of it. But there is perhaps nothing more closely associated to you as an individual than the clothes you wear. It plays so many different roles in your life, from the way you express your gender, to the functional roles you fulfill at work, to social symbols such as status, position, group affiliation. It affects how you feel, and how you are treated by others, your ability to find a partner, and so on.

(August 5, 2022 at 5:02 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:

(August 5, 2022 at 4:37 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If a merchant or producer is engaging in practices a consumer disagrees with, I should think the consumer would be ethically obligated to withhold their patronage. 

Do you see that as a symbolic protest? Or do you see every purchase as containing a hidden ethical transaction, such that you are a direct sponsor or accomplice of the merchants' practices?

It’s clearly more than symbolic. Since ethics is concerned with right/wrong behaviour, it would be unethical to patronize a merchant you feel is engaging in wrong practices.

Of COURSE you’re sponsoring a merchant’s practices is you deal with them. Suppose you like, say, fish and chips, Susan’s Chip Shop is your absolute favourite. At some point, you learn that Susan is using the proceeds from her restaurant to finance her dog-fighting ring, a practice you find morally repugnant. If you continue to buy your lunch from Susan, you’re knowingly supporting a practice to which you’re ethically opposed.

Same with fashion - if you buy your trainers from a company you know uses child labour, you’re supporting it.

Boru

(August 5, 2022 at 5:21 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Suppose you like, say, fish and chips, Susan’s Chip Shop is your absolute favourite. At some point, you learn that Susan is using the proceeds from her restaurant to finance her dog-fighting ring, a practice you find morally repugnant. If you continue to buy your lunch from Susan, you’re knowingly supporting a practice to which you’re ethically opposed.

I think most people will agree with you. But there's a disconnect there that I'm not sure is being bridged properly. When I buy the fish and chips, the amount I'm willing to pay represents the total value that I ascribe to the meal alone, not the value I ascribe to the meal plus whatever the merchant will do with the money.

How does it cross from a purchase to a sponsorship?

(August 5, 2022 at 5:20 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: I think clothing is more complicated and interesting than that.

There are the obvious cultural aspects of it. But there is perhaps nothing more closely associated to you as an individual than the clothes you wear. It plays so many different roles in your life, from the way you express your gender, to the functional roles you fulfill at work, to social symbols such as status, position, group affiliation. It affects how you feel, and how you are treated by others, your ability to find a partner, and so on.

This is important, I think. 

Depending on how one defines fashion, it may go a lot deeper than we think.

If it includes signifiers, pre-decided by others, for how we show our personalities to the world, then no one is immune. 

People who say fashion is stupid and they're above all that will still use the symbols of their social class to present who they are. In America, guns, motorcycles, and the clothes that go with them, are fashion. Using these to show who you are makes you fashionable. Like it or not.